Need Cam help

[donfordman30]

Looking for a good cam to go with the following set-up. I need some idea's?
AFR 185 HEADS
Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 intake
24 pound injectors
76 MM Mass air
C@L intake tube
1.6 roller rockers
125 Shot NOS
1 5/8 Shorty Headers
H-Pipe
Flowmasters
3:73 gears with an auburn locker
MSD 6AL with distributor.
AODE Transmission with 2800-3000 stall

Looking to stroke the block in the future but only have 30 thousand on the motor. What Cam to use? :drool:

[QWKSNKE]

Is this on a stock shortblock?

[donfordman30]

:dump: Yes and I need to mention that the car has an AODE (Art Carr) rebuilt race transmission and a 2800-3000 stall. Around 6 more months before I get the 347 block for it.

[03slobra]

For that stall I would go with an E303 cam.Much more than that is gonna make it lug the car in gear at idle.IMO

[QWKSNKE]

Preston, what about one of the small AFM cams?

[coupe]

Another good candidate for one of Cranes "Powermax" series (the old Compucam EFI cams). They are friendly on duration, but lift figures are generous. Use Crane part number 444225. :nice:

[BAD INT]

COMP XE CAM XE274HR

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_33084_-1

[03slobra]

Preston, what about one of the small AFM cams?Yeah,I do like those cams.Dont know the specs on those just used the Ecam as example.I would say around a .500 lift for the stock block and no more than 224 duration.But again thats just an opinion.Because I think marc has a 3500 stall in the vert with an f303 cam and pulls that car at idle .but not to bad

[coupe]

Crane #444225 is somewhere around .513/.529 lift...and 212/218º duration I think. You'll love it. Prepare to upgrade later though, with the 347. At that point, you can start getting serious.

[donfordman30]

Thanks guys:metal:

[EHardy1971]

The E-cam is .498 lift/282 duration

[donfordman30]

Are all these cams that were recommeded good for drivability? I drive the car 50 miles every week or 2 weeks. I want a good streetable cam. :popcorn:

[03slobra]

Yeah they're streetable.

[donfordman30]

Ok one last question? What about and F cam with the stock bottom end? Is that overkill on the motor and transmission?

[banditmwp]

FWIW I drive an E-cammed stock block about 200 miles per week with no problems. :nice:

[EHardy1971]

Another E-cam guy here,like Preston,and Matt said,they're plenty streetable.I would'nt recommend using an F-cam on a stock Converter,and definately not with the stock valve springs!(unless you AFR ones are rated for that much lift!)

[donfordman30]

I like a loopy idle that really talks to you. Will the E really talk to you?

[EHardy1971]

I like a loopy idle that really talks to you. Will the E really talk to you?
:yup: It's got a noticeable choppy idle,I've even got mine advanced by 4* to lower my powerband,and you can tell it's not a stock cam.

[banditmwp]

:yup: It's got a noticeable choppy idle,I've even got mine advanced by 4* to lower my powerband,and you can tell it's not a stock cam.
:yup:

It's not gonna make anyone drool or freak out, but you can tell it's cutting up decent.

Mine is set at 14* base timing btw

[EHardy1971]

:yup:

It's not gonna make anyone drool or freak out, but you can tell it's cutting up decent.

Mine is set at 14* base timing btw
Same here on the ignition timing,the cam timing is what I have advanced,I forgot to clarify on that!:doh:

[BAD INT]

Ok one last question? What about and F cam with the stock bottom end? Is that overkill on the motor and transmission?


thought you were gonna be upgrading to a 347 so why waste time on panzy letter cams,B is your best bet of the letters but dont go letter camming.What do you want out of your engine?

[donfordman30]

I want good sound. But horsepower is what I want. I'm not sure if I want to add all this to my block that is in the car or go ahead and build the stroker now and add all the parts to the stroker and pull my 30000 mile motor out. I have the money just not sure what path to take. Thinking really about the stroker now.

[donfordman30]

What about this combo. Will it make a respectable street car?
Stock block
AFR 165 Pedestal mount heads
1.7 Crane Rollers
Edelbrock RPM 2 intake
24 pound injectors and the other bolt ons
with the B Cam? While I build the stroker with the 185's?

[89five0Gt]

:yup:

It's not gonna make anyone drool or freak out, but you can tell it's cutting up decent.

Mine is set at 14* base timing btw

:werd: I really like my E cam with 1:7 RR. its noticable

[coupe]

The AFR 165 will allow you more room because of the smaller valves. If it were mine...at that point, I would bypass the Letter cams and put the Trick Flow stage 1 in there. It is a very healthy sounding and performing cam due to it's advanced bias exhaust pattern. Lift is .499/.510 with 1.6RR's.

But put some 4.10's in that AOD car.

[donfordman30]

Ok so go with the AFR165 heads with the 1.6 RA and the trick flow stage 1 cam and that will make a good combo? Are the 1.7 RA too much for the heads and cam? The reason I ask is I have a set on the stock heads and would like to save 200 bucks if possible.

[89five0Gt]

Ok so go with the AFR165 heads with the 1.6 RA and the trick flow stage 1 cam and that will make a good combo? Are the 1.7 RA too much for the heads and cam? The reason I ask is I have a set on the stock heads and would like to save 200 bucks if possible.

the RR are different on your stock heads. they are pedalstal mount unless they have been machined to accept the stud mount

[Italian LX]

the RR are different on your stock heads. they are pedalstal mount unless they have been machined to accept the stud mount
You can order the AFR165 heads for use with pedestal rockers.

[donfordman30]

So will the AFR 165 with pedetal mounts and 1.7 RR work with the trick stage 1 cam? Or will I have to go to 1.6?

The 165's are ped. mount.

[EHardy1971]

The AFR 165 will allow you more room because of the smaller valves. If it were mine...at that point, I would bypass the Letter cams and put the Trick Flow stage 1 in there. It is a very healthy sounding and performing cam due to it's advanced bias exhaust pattern. Lift is .499/.510 with 1.6RR's.

But put some 4.10's in that AOD car.
Does'nt the TF cam also have a 110* LSA,where the E cam has a 112*?

[89five0Gt]

You can order the AFR165 heads for use with pedestal rockers.


oh :huh: i didn't know that....my bad

[coupe]

I have seen a TFS stage 1 installed with 1.7RR's on stock E7's and it cleared. It's close (.530/.542), but should work. Check it with clay. Clearance it if you want.

The Stage 1 is on a 112º LSA. Ground with a 108º Intake centerline if you install it dot-to-dot. That works well.

The E-cam is on a 110º and not sure about it's centerlines. Probably 110.
The overlap is still quite significant. That's why it runs so good N/A. The B and F usually are better for the bottle or power-adders.

[QWKSNKE]

I ran a .544 lift cam on a stock shortblock and AFR 165's with no problems. I think duration at .050 was around 224-226

[EHardy1971]

Ok,I got the E,and the TFS backwards,oops!

[QWKSNKE]

Here is my recommendation AFM N-41
Descr...N-41 c.i.d. This cam is to be used with 1.6 R.R. Best cam for GT-40.
Great with TFS or Edelbrock heads. Minimum 24lb injectors and 75mm
mass air. Recommend 3:73 to 4:30 gears. Good drivability down to
2000 rpm, lumpy idle, rpm range 2400-6200, works best with 89-93
ECC, needs 2600-2800 converter.

[donfordman30]

Thanks for the help guys. Alot to think about. But great info.

[BAD INT]

DO NOT BUY 165'S if you are going to buy another set of heads buy some twisted wedges they allow more cam and will make more power,also you can find used sets reasonable and even ported.I think if you bought the 165's it would be a waste of money.I dont want to overload you with ifo and really confuse you as there is a lot of people allready chiming in on this subject.If you want to hold off till you do the 347? or you want to do something to the current till you make your mind up just cam the current engine and save the head money to throw better parts at the 347.If you are in a quandry and have any questions pm me I just dont like to see people throw money away and not be happy.

Matt you have it backwards on the letter cams b makes more n/a power possibly even with a power adder than the eek.E is emissions legal cam and is recomended for forced inductions but I just dont like it.B or Fand Xif you have the room but I try not to run letter cams in performance stuff unless its budget.

[coupe]

Matt you have it backwards
I didn't say it made more power than B or F. Just pointed out how well the E-303 does on N/A mild applications. It's a very good stock replacement for mild-setups.

The B is a good power-maker, but really needs a higher-ratio rocker to get the most out of it's timing. The F has never impressed me and I've driven a few. It does well with a turbo, but then again, so does a stock cam.

My opinion on alphabet cams is this: If you can find one really cheap (often the case), then they're good to use. If you're spending some dough, they aren't as cheap as they used to be. Pay a little more and get something with more modern lobes and some friendlier cam-timing for the more modern heads and stroker combinations.

:p

[EHardy1971]

if you are going to buy another set of heads buy some twisted wedges they allow more cam and will make more power,also you can find used sets reasonable and even ported


And remember to get pistons FOR twisted wedge heads!(if you did'nt already know!)

[BAD INT]

And remember to get pistons FOR twisted wedge heads!(if you did'nt already know!)


you can run larger cam with out flycutting or changing pistons with the wedges with the angle their valves are on than normal inline heads

[EHardy1971]

you can run larger cam with out flycutting or changing pistons with the wedges with the angle their valves are on than normal inline heads
:huh: that's sorta playing with fire though,is'nt it?

[03slobra]

Since you plan on going bigger later dont do anything until your sure what you wanna do.You will spend lots of money and still not be happy.Trust me I've been there.And as for the cam e,b,f,comp cam anderson cam,whatever the type.As long as its around 500 lift,for this combo,its not going to even make 2hp difference its just preference in maker.

[BAD INT]

:huh: that's sorta playing with fire though,is'nt it?
not really you can get on the tfs site they have recomendations there that are safe with there product

[donfordman30]

UPDATE:
Just got a 347 stroker delivered. AFR 185 Stud mounts. 24 pound injectors. Edelbrock victor jr. intake and COMP XE CAM XE274HR going into the car this weekend. Can't wait to feel the difference. How much power do you think I should expect to the rear wheels?

[03slobra]

bout 330hp and 360 to 375tq

[Kaoz78]

I'm new here so all I am going to do is direct you to a site with VERY VERY GOOD INFO. Go and read some on SBFTech.com

[coupe]

:think: Hmm. brought back from the dead.

Might as well give an update now donfordman...

[03slobra]

I'm new here so all I am going to do is direct you to a site with VERY VERY GOOD INFO. Go and read some on SBFTech.com
Guess nobody on here knows anything about camshafts:dunno:

[banditmwp]

:huh: that's sorta playing with fire though,is'nt it?

:D So far, no 'splosion here.

[EHardy1971]

:D So far, no 'splosion here.
:yup: True!

[Kaoz78]

Guess nobody on here knows anything about camshafts:dunno:

Look, no one said that. I have no real technical advice to give the original poster, so instead, I listed another site for him to do research on. That was all.

Isn't the idea of this hobby to LEARN new things? I have seen similar questions asked about this elsewhere. I meant no disrespect to anyone here.

[coupe]

Isn't the idea of this hobby to LEARN new things? I have seen similar questions asked about this elsewhere. I meant no disrespect to anyone here.

You're correct. Thanks for the link to sbftech. :nice:
Nice GT btw.

[BAD INT]

Guess nobody on here knows anything about camshafts:dunno:

very possible,what I have seen here many are scared to put a lumpy stick in their car.

[BAD INT]

:think: Hmm. brought back from the dead.

Might as well give an update now donfordman...


Don any updates?

[QWKSNKE]

very possible,what I have seen here many are scared to put a lumpy stick in their car.

:rofl:

[EHardy1971]

very possible,what I have seen here many are scared to put a lumpy stick in their car.
:ohsnap:

[donfordman30]

Ok sorry for the delay guys. Here's what I got. Took the 347 block,cam and AFR 185'S installed them with new timing chain 1.7 RR and then wrapped the motor in shrink wrap and stuck it in the outside Garage waiting for Fox body to be purchased. So with that said

I took my motor apart. Installed a COMP CAM 264XE, AFR 165'S, 1.6 SCORPION RR, TIMING CHAIN, 24 POUND INJECTORS, Edelbrock Victor EFI Intake, MSD Billet distributor and new Adjustable fuel pressure regulator along with other new polished or chrome goodies. I have the mo tor all put togther and have the following problems. Fuel gauge is leaking and intake a a smal leak at the upper plenum. I couldn't get a good idle so had a few more drinks and said @#@#@%$#%#$@^% and then gave the car a bird and have yet to get it back corrected. I have got a plenum spacer for the car and just haven't had the time to get back on it. Really need a local Buddy to help get momentum back going. The main thing I have noticed is the Scorpion RR are loud as hell and can't use stock valve covers any more and can't use the polishe tall boys so had to settle for some cheap ass chrome ones. Sorry to ramble but still pissed everything didn;t work the first time.

That's to all for your suggestions on the pony mods. I took them all into consideration and took little bits of information from all with research and now I have one bad machine if I ever get it running.

Wow all that and the car still doesn't run Damn.

[EHardy1971]

so had a few more drinks and said @#@#@%$#%#$@^% and then gave the car a bird


:spit::rofl:BTDT more times than I care to remember! Sometimes you just have to walk away from it for awhile,and mentally sort it out.It'll come together!

[BAD INT]

165's are a huge waste of money unless its a class demand!!! that victor intake is a little much on a small cube engine, hope you get your car going agian soon!!!

[donfordman30]

Ment to say edelbrock RPM Intake not victor. I'm not looking to build a race car with this one but just a good street car with some power. That is why I got the 165's. Good flow numbers and good bolt on power. The fox I build will have all the big stuff.

[coupe]

that combo sounds great. Should idle fine... :think:

[QWKSNKE]

165's are a huge waste of money unless its a class demand!!! that victor intake is a little much on a small cube engine, hope you get your car going agian soon!!!

pffft. I made good power with my 165's on n/a (300/325), blown(525/532), and nitrous (413/560) combos.

My intake is what held me back (OEM cobra)

[BAD INT]

pffft. I made good power with my 165's on n/a (300/325), blown(525/532), and nitrous (413/560) combos.

My intake is what held me back (OEM cobra)


made almost same numbers with E7's I really think a head that small is a waste,I know they are aluminum just not in my list of heads.Was your lower stock or worked?

[donfordman30]

Stock and will work fine for me. I don't want or need a power hosr on this one I have the 125 shoot for leeway and street use. Sufficent if I say so my self.

[QWKSNKE]

made almost same numbers with E7's
:lol:
I'll play nice and not throw :bs: Did you donate those to a musuem? I have never seen an E7 headed car put down more than 240 (if that much)rwhp. You guys must have perfect air in Tennessee. 165's provided a huge rwhp increase over my OEM GT-40's

FWIW there is very little flow difference between 165's and 185's.

my lower was stock on all combos mentioned. I ported the lower on my last n/a combo but yielded no gains

[BAD INT]

they are in florida they are on a buddies engine they were originally for a PS car then he just went crazy with them if I had the flow numbers and dyno sheets you would freak I lost them in a computer crash I will see if he can send them to me.The heads have titaium valves in the now but had used reground chevies stuff when he was doing all the testing,cheaper to test valve jobs on junk!! I was blown away by the results I did his shortblock and it was shit old stock parts with new pistons.his best numbers peak were carbed and average were injected with a systemax

[coupe]

Yea, I've heard of hogged-out E7's flowing in the 230-240 range...but that still would not "better" an AFR 165. The rest of the combination is just as important: You could have an E7 head with the right cam and matched intake runner out-power a 165 headed motor with the wrong cam and an out-of-the-box intake.

Bench racing is great, huh? :banana:

[Dale McPeters]

Huh?

E7's flow as good as AFR-165's and make the same amount of power?
Is that what you guy's are saying?

If so ...................... :rofl: :rofl:

Like Matt said I love bench racing.......:D

[BAD INT]

Huh?

E7's flow as good as AFR-165's and make the same amount of power?
Is that what you guy's are saying?

If so ...................... :rofl: :rofl:

Like Matt said I love bench racing.......:D


want a set he has 3 all in various stages the most worked set is in use and will make about the same numbers stated above.I didnt believe it till I saw it.The heads fall off quickly but remember E7 is a high velocity head.Mike has large amounts of money in his stuff he wanted to run these heads for some unknown reason he is very hard headed and now the guy has the port patterns at Mikes expense.You guys may waste money on the 165 but I just dont see the need for such a small head cause everyone in this game aspires to have a faster car and need look to the future when buying parts not starter aluminum heads atleast some twisted wedges.

[donfordman30]

Back from the dead once more. Ok. After A month now I decided to open the hood. Took the professional products fuel reg off and put my factory on. Then took off the upper intake added spacer and tightened everything down. Noticed a crack in my EGR tube so got a new one from the dealer and get it on. Spent around 30 mintutes last night trying to get it running. When I first started the car it ran great then quite after 45 secs. So I was like humm. Played with the timing and vacuum and still couldn't get it back to running. So then thought about it. What it the basic theory in a motor running. Air/Fire/Fuel. Well ends up I was out of Fu$$ing gas. Car is now running.

WHAT SHOULD I SET MY TIMING ON FELLOWS?

[ncontt]

out of gas...lol, can't say as I have EVAH done that one ;) glad you got it going

[89five0Gt]

I just got a picture in my head from the movie "Slingblade" when Karl is working at the lawnmower place... anyways glad its running

[EHardy1971]

Base timing at 13*

[donfordman30]

Thanks everyone for the help she's running great. Heading to dyno next week.