Anti-squat, where to begin? Pinion Angle too.

[Sendero]

Since I will be installing my Tri-Link soon, I was running through some numbers on the suspension. First I will give you a run down of the suspension:

350# Front Coilovers
225# Rear Coilovers
Stock Cobra Front Swaybar
MM Panhard Bar
Pro3i Race LCA's (Poly body mount, Solid Axle Mount)
Deleted the rear swaybar

With the Tri-Link I have the option of setting the anti-squat between 90% and 105%. I understand that if its to high I will experience wheel hop under hard braking. But from what I have read, the higher settings will "hit" the tires harder without affecting weight transfer. This seems counterproductive for a radial tired car. Where should I begin, high or low?

Also the pinion angle, I know the stock Ford is around 3* to 4* negative. Since now my axle will be solidly suspended, should I move to something a little less like 1* to 1.5* negative? This is what the Ford service manual says the transmission/crankshaft centerline angle is set to from the factory.

Thanks :metal:

[slvrbullit]

I cant answer none of your question there, but I have an angle locator if you need to borrow it.

[QWKSNKE]

I think the best thing to do, is to call the manufacturer of your stuff and see what they recommend

[tacbear]

Since I will be installing my Tri-Link soon, I was running through some numbers on the suspension. First I will give you a run down of the suspension:

350# Front Coilovers
225# Rear Coilovers
Stock Cobra Front Swaybar
MM Panhard Bar
Pro3i Race LCA's (Poly body mount, Solid Axle Mount)
Deleted the rear swaybar

With the Tri-Link I have the option of setting the anti-squat between 90% and 105%. I understand that if its to high I will experience wheel hop under hard braking. But from what I have read, the higher settings will "hit" the tires harder without affecting weight transfer. This seems counterproductive for a radial tired car. Where should I begin, high or low?

Also the pinion angle, I know the stock Ford is around 3* to 4* negative. Since now my axle will be solidly suspended, should I move to something a little less like 1* to 1.5* negative? This is what the Ford service manual says the transmission/crankshaft centerline angle is set to from the factory.

Thanks :metal:


Answer:YES

[Sendero]

I think the best thing to do, is to call the manufacturer of your stuff and see what they recommend

Their answer: We cannot answer that question for you as it depends on your setup, which we would have to measure and test in-person.

Not much help to me. :mad:

[Italian LX]

2002 Custom Harley Davidson F 150
2000 Mustang GT "Batmobile Edition"
2000 S10 Low rider "Yo"
1995 35 ft. Coachman Santara 7.5L UAV
1982 S10 beater
1998 Caravelle Ski Boat
2000 Kawasaki 300 Lakota 4wheeler
1989 Kawasaki 300 Bayou 4wheeler
looking for a front wheel drive daily driver


You just can't hide money can you Whit :jester:

[tacbear]

You just can't hide money can you Whit :jester:


I stole most of them ;)

[coupe]

Sendero. Your pinion angle will depend on what you want to do with the car. Mine's changed alot with the LCA's I used, but it's now got a little vibration at speed under part throttle... But it jumps out like never before when I hit it. I need ARUCA's to correct this.

You can hopefully adjust your angle and set it to your driving habits. The best method is by testing it.

[svopaul]

I think the best thing to do, is to call the manufacturer of your stuff and see what they recommend


This is what I would suggest. You could "test it" or play around with it yourself but there really isn't much area around here were you can effectively try out your adjustments so that advice is jumping the gun by a long shot.

First contact the manufacturer and tell them what you have....they should be able to offer a suggestion for at least a starting point and from there when you have the opportunity to put it through it's paces you can make adjustments from there. This should also give you a safe starting point where you can drive the car and get a feel for your new system....you need some seat time in order to get a feel for what it is doing and be able to further adjust it later.

You will also want to consider your front suspension and the alignment settings you have there....both front and rear suspension need to work together so you don't want to have a setting up front that is going to negatively effect the rear....the manufacturer should also be able to recommend some alignment settings for you. If they cannot then let me know and I'll dig up some specs for you ;)

[Craig K.]

Nathan,
Try posting this question on Cornercravers I would think those guys would have the best suggestions on where to start.

Personaly I like to start things in the middle of their range, then as Paul said get some seat time. Then I usually will make a drastic move in either direction to feel what it does or does do. Do this in both directions of available movement.

Then make smaller moves in the direction which felt better.

As far as pinnion angle goes, I would do the same. Try starting out around 3 degrees and see how it feels.

Make the Pan hard rod and 3 link adjustments until they feel good. Then make a pinnion adjustment drastically say from 3 to 1 and see what it feels like.

The secret to an adjustable suspension is to try it out.

[Sendero]

Nathan,
Try posting this question on Cornercravers I would think those guys would have the best suggestions on where to start.


http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15727&page=5

Already tried that and I got a "ambigous" answer. But thank you for the suggestions of starting in the middle. I hope to get a lot of seat time at TGPR or something similar this Spring/Summer. Now I just wished my Panhard Rod was a little more adjustable in the Z direction. :chair:

[coupe]

like I said before. test it out. Listen to Craig...he's got his weight-distribution pretty well equalized on his 85.

[svopaul]

like I said before. test it out.


That was agreed on but you MUST have a good starting point which you did not mention. Everything else said was to clarify that you must have a good/safe starting setting BEFORE testing changes out. You can't just toss a suspension system together and go out and drive it without a base starting point....doing it that way is a crap shoot meaning it might be OK or worse you could end up with a potentially dangerous setting. With all the idiots on the road today you never know when someone is going to do something stuipd and force you to react and the last thing anyone needs is a situation forcing them to react and end up in a wreck as a result of a very wrong guessed starting point. Granted this is rare and not that likely but still possible. He doesn't have a race track to test on which means it will be done on the streets....a good base starting point will go a long way and keep the car fairly predictable.

[Sendero]

Pinion Angle, does it directly effect ride quality?

[Sendero]

That was agreed on but you MUST have a good starting point which you did not mention. Everything else said was to clarify that you must have a good/safe starting setting BEFORE testing changes out. You can't just toss a suspension system together and go out and drive it without a base starting point....doing it that way is a crap shoot meaning it might be OK or worse you could end up with a potentially dangerous setting. With all the idiots on the road today you never know when someone is going to do something stuipd and force you to react and the last thing anyone needs is a situation forcing them to react and end up in a wreck as a result of a very wrong guessed starting point. Granted this is rare and not that likely but still possible. He doesn't have a race track to test on which means it will be done on the streets....a good base starting point will go a long way and keep the car fairly predictable.

I know that I definately what to set my car up for a little bit of understeer rather than oversteer. As much as I think it would be cool to "hang tail" out of the turn lane, I don't think it would be a wise setup in an emergency manuver.

The MM Panhard is pretty much fixed. Just enough adjustment to get it level which is good enough for the street. But I would like a little more adjustment so I can dial in a little more tension/slop.

Anti-squat, I'm just going to start in the middle and drive it. See if I get any brake hop and take it to the track a couple of times.

Ride height, set it low enough to look good but high enough to keep it off the bumpstops. This usually equates to about a 1" drop.

Springs, pretty much set. Although I will probably preload them all a half turn.

Can't think of anything else right now, but it will probably change tomorrow!

[svopaul]

Pinion Angle, does it directly effect ride quality?


I have never noticed any effect but I also have not had one set for full on Drag Racing or any other extreem on a street driven car.

When setting it up on a Mark VII I built for a customer we played around with a few different settings while working on trying to cure a vibration problem (caused by the guy who installed the 5 speed) I never felt any deterioration of ride quality....But there can be a noticeable difference in how the car launches off the line....this was also a street car and not a drag car.

The Evolution is set up as pretty much a full out corner carver and has excellent road manners ;)

[svopaul]

I know that I definately what to set my car up for a little bit of understeer rather than oversteer. As much as I think it would be cool to "hang tail" out of the turn lane, I don't think it would be a wise setup in an emergency manuver.

The MM Panhard is pretty much fixed. Just enough adjustment to get it level which is good enough for the street. But I would like a little more adjustment so I can dial in a little more tension/slop.

Anti-squat, I'm just going to start in the middle and drive it. See if I get any brake hop and take it to the track a couple of times.

Ride height, set it low enough to look good but high enough to keep it off the bumpstops. This usually equates to about a 1" drop.

Springs, pretty much set. Although I will probably preload them all a half turn.

Can't think of anything else right now, but it will probably change tomorrow!

You've got a good handle on it for a starting point....things will always change, you will find yourself playing with things for a while until you settle in where you like it.

Be prepared with tools if you go to TGPR....you may want to play there when you have the opportunity to run it a little harder than you can on the street...you'll have plenty of time to tinker between your sessions ;)

[Sendero]

I have never noticed any effect but I also have not had one set for full on Drag Racing or any other extreem on a street driven car.

When setting it up on a Mark VII I built for a customer we played around with a few different settings while working on trying to cure a vibration problem (caused by the guy who installed the 5 speed) I never felt any deterioration of ride quality....But there can be a noticeable difference in how the car launches off the line....this was also a street car and not a drag car.

The Evolution is set up as pretty much a full out corner carver and has excellent road manners ;)

Just out of curiosity, what pinion angle was the Mark VII and its mods? (IE: How was it "bushed": poly, rubber, or solid) Same for the Evolution?

[svopaul]

Just out of curiosity, what pinion angle was the Mark VII and its mods? (IE: How was it "bushed": poly, rubber, or solid) Same for the Evolution?

The Mark VII was poly bushings all around with adjustable upper arms and the car was lowered from stock ride height...nothing else. The pinion angle ended up at 2 degrees negative on it which seemed to be the best at the time. The issue what that car is that the transmission tunnel is not made for a 5 speed so the transmission height and pinion angle had to be played with. Sometime over the winter the car is supposed to ship down here from Maryland so that we can put a Mustang Tunnel section in it and make it right and I am sure I'll have to reset the pinion angle there.

The Evolution I honestly can't remember but the car is here so it is something that can be checked ;). My angle finder has gone missing in our move...this reminds me I need to pick up another one ;) The evolution has spherical rod ends...no bushings at all on the rear end and no upper control arms since it has the Watts linkage and severe duty torque arm.

[Craig K.]

Nathan,

When are you planning on doing the install?

Also if we end up doing a TGRP day I will bring all my tools, and would be glad to work on it with you.

[Sendero]

Nathan,

When are you planning on doing the install?

Also if we end up doing a TGRP day I will bring all my tools, and would be glad to work on it with you.

This weekend. I think I have suckered errr, ummmm convinced a few people to help.

Thanks for the offer on the tools, I will definately need help!

[Craig K.]

This weekend. I think I have suckered errr, ummmm convinced a few people to help.

Hmmmm, I am currently at the In-Laws (Southern Illinois) and will be driving through the Decatur area on RT 65 on Sunday early evening.

Perhaps I should make a quick stop and check it out.

[Craig K.]

Well, did you do it this weekend???

[QWKSNKE]

:yup: All day Saturday

[Craig K.]

Pics!

How did it turn out???