New Moates hardware almost ready for primetime....

[Dale McPeters]

Almost ready for primetime.....quote from Moates website below.


We've got two products that are about to be released. They both bave been heavily beta tested, with base functionality fully proven and all the extra bells and whistles being added in. They are as follows:


- QuarterHorse: Full emulation for pre-2005 Fords with RAM shadowing and logging. This means bumpless realtime tuning as well as datalogging for all those EEC-IV/V with a J3 port. Single mini-USB connection, fully native software support. All the emulation and data flow looks fantastic, now we're working with the software/firmware side for data translation and legacy compatibility.


- Demon: Emulation, datalogging, multi-map, imbedded board with all kinds of bells and whistles for the Honda OBD1/P28/P30/JDM. Too many features to list, this is a single-cable internally-mounted solution. Will be compatible with all popular software (eCTune, Neptune, Crome, etc). Emulation works flawlessly, and datalogging protocols are being polished up for enhanced throughput and flexibility.


There's plenty of other products on the horizon, but these two are coming very close. No release date has been specified, but be assured, we're moving as quickly as the hours in the day allow.

:D

[SvoBrown]

I still have my Moates using the J3 port. in the svo. Has not given me any problems what so ever. Just think of what I could do if I knew how to tune it!!!
Good product at a low price.

[Dale McPeters]

A quote from Craig on our yahoo list....


Ok folks,

Everyone is asking, and I've been sorely remiss in keeping quiet. We've had our
heads down taking care of all the standard 'life' stuff and getting this new
product polished up and ready.

New project name: QuarterHorse

(someone else wanted to use all of the mythological creatures / Dungeons and
Dragons monsters, so I let them have the 'Pegasus' name for an unrelated
offering to avoid confusion)

Status updates:

- In summary: 110% Success!

- Form factor adjusted to fit nicely in all the EEC-IV and V packages.

- Datalogging on the A9L/A9P advanced significantly. Both bench testing and
in-vehicle completed.

- Most data can be picked up WITHOUT CODE PATCHES, and the rest can be harvested
with some minor register shuffling.

- Several custom code patches were implemented successfully during testing to
move values around, pull ADC directly, render internal timers/counters, etc.

- Thanks to Paul Booth for helping me get my head around the 8061 stuff. Thanks
to others too, but Paul's the man!

- Performed live datalogging at 500+ frames per second, ALL data in external RAM
is shadowed accurately. Internal registers can be (and have been) remapped as
visible with patches if necessary.

- Simplified protocols for high throughput and easy legacy compatibility
updates.

- Details to follow for you software architects out there, but look forward to
an instruction set that has been streamlined.

- 100% nondisruptive realtime updates, you can upload entire binaries back and
forth / over and over without disturbing vehicle operation at all.

- We're digging into the BMD0 strategy (Marauder test vehicle) to flesh out the
EEC-V datalogging at similar data rates if not faster.

- We're actually polling the EEC_IV stuff faster than it updates internally (see
spreadsheet). Maybe the EEC-V will keep up with us? Nah.


Future 'nice to have' Features not available for introductory release but
(possibly) to be added later (will likely incur additional cost and require
bench update by sending it in):

- Multiple binary loading for EEC-IV, possibly EEC-V also.

- Remote breakout box accessory device for black-box logging capabilities, data
display, remote switching, ADC channels, Bluetooth, etc.

- EEC-read capabilities to read 'stock' ECU contents like the F2E or
EECSucka-type devices.

Production and distribution status:

- Rare species! Three units in existence: one has been in the field with Jody at
DP-Tuner for months doing emulation on the Powerstrokes, one is in my hands, and
one is on its way to Paul Booth for delivery on Wednesday.

- 10 new boards are in hand, to be completed for further field testing and
development this week: There's a short list of folks who have helped and have
one of these coming to them. You know who you are, so no need to ask. You'll be
getting your units within 2-3 weeks from now, software guys obviously get
priority.

- First 50-100 full production units are to be completed and available by
February. I'm serious this time, no more schedule stretching!

- Pricing will be $249 initially, not to exceed $295 later on. Available from
http://www.moates.net

Here's your data preview:

http://www.moates.net/zips/testa9l.zip (watch out, it's 8 megabytes unzipped!)


It's just under a minute's worth of data, but there are almost 150,000
datapoints (5 parameters HEGO1/HEGO2/RPM/MAF/TPS at around 500 frames/sec).
There's loads of optimization still available, theoretical limits are much
faster. But again, we're hitting the parameters faster than the EEC can keep us
posted, so we're well into the overkill zone on much of this. And that's where I
want to be.

What will you possibly do with all of this data? That's up to you, it's your
vehicle!

Hope this helps,

Craig


:D

[ncontt]

dayam....sounds sweet....might have to look into this in the future (sounds better than the tweecer stuff....:-( )

[Dale McPeters]

dayam....sounds sweet....might have to look into this in the future (sounds better than the tweecer stuff....:-( )

Yep this thing is going to be on steroids........:jester:

[Dale McPeters]

The Moates QH is now shipping......:jester:

For those of us that really like the ability to change things on the fly while the car is running this thing works great!!! :D

This is what the TwEECer-RT was supposed to do 5 years ago...........

[BAD INT]

Dale I have never heard of this Moates stuff can you link me or email some info Please. Jon

[QWKSNKE]

The Moates QH is now shipping......:jester:

For those of us that really like the ability to change things on the fly while the car is running this thing works great!!! :D

This is what the TwEECer-RT was supposed to do 5 years ago...........

So I guess I can buy a 80mm MAF and bring the SVO to you for a tune.

For the cost of a chip of course :D:D

[SvoBrown]

I knew I should have waited 2 years for this. Lee, I will be watching you on this.

[Dale McPeters]

Dale I have never heard of this Moates stuff can you link me or email some info Please. Jon BADINT1@AOL.COM

www.moates.net

So I guess I can buy a 80mm MAF and bring the SVO to you for a tune.

For the cost of a chip of course :D:D

Yep if I still remember how......:D

I knew I should have waited 2 years for this. Lee, I will be watching you on this.

Well maybe....if you want to do real time data analysis....:jester:

I will see if I can find the you tube video that someone made of it in action during the software test phase.....

[Dale McPeters]

Here is a link to the video during testing >

http://www.tpsperformance.com/blog/2009/01/quarterhorse-in-action-video/

[97cobrasvt]

nice that should be a fun tool to have..

[SlowJoe]

:metal:

[Dale McPeters]

Well I have the QH up and running in the '93 cobra......still have a few minor bugs to work out but this thing is absolutely amazing so far....

Will be testing some more this weekend.....after all the ice melts and the rain quits.........:jester:

[SvoBrown]

Where are you Dale, location, . I would love to see some of this. Learn some too. Time to get the svo up one level.

[Italian LX]

Where are you Dale, location, .
:think:




:D

[Dale McPeters]

Where are you Dale, location, . I would love to see some of this. Learn some too. Time to get the svo up one level.

Right now I am working on a Teal color puzzle that has a lot of pieces.....just kidding I am in Midland Tx.......but if the Obama plan keeps working the way it has been the past few weeks I may be back in NC growing the biggest garden I can at my mothers house .....:jester:

:think:




:D

:rofl: :rofl:

[banditmwp]

Dale would you recommend the QH to someone new to tuning or would you recommend a different unit?

[Dale McPeters]

Dale would you recommend the QH to someone new to tuning or would you recommend a different unit?

That depends on how much time you are willing to spend learning the hardware/software....

It really is no different than what we used to do with a carb and dist. setup in some ways except now you are doing it on a key board.

If you just want something that you push buttons on that give you +/- settings then the QH is not for you....but if you want to have total absolute control of the EEC-IV then the QH is the only option there is....next would be the TwEECer-RT. And now that Byron is not making the SneeC-IV any more these are the only two options for data logging the EEC-IV.

Unless of course you want to use a dataq or innovative setup for data logging only.

One thing to remember the QH is the only hardware to date that will give you real time tuning/logging while the car is running on an EEC-IV...it works similar to my AEM or a Fast unit. But you do not have WB feed back for tuning.

Paul is supposed to send me an update for real time table tracing of spark and fuel....:D

In other words you will have to make the decision on how much you want to learn and how much time you are willing to devote to something like the QH.

-Dale

[QWKSNKE]

That depends on how much time you are willing to spend learning the hardware/software....

It really is no different than what we used to with a carb and dist. setup in some ways except now you are doing it on a key board.

If you just want something that you push buttons on that give you +/- settings then the QH is not for you....but if you want to have total absolute control of the EEC-IV then the QH is the only option there is....next would be the TwEECer-RT. And now that Byron is not making the SneeC-IV any more these are the only two options for data logging the EEC-IV.

Unless of course you want to use a dataq or innovative setup for data logging only.

One thing to remember the QH is the only hardware to date that will give you real time tuning/logging while the car is running on an EEC-IV...it works similar to my AEM or a Fast unit. But you do not have WB feed back for tuning.

Paul is supposed to send me an update for real time table tracing of spark and fuel....:D

In other words you will have to make the decision on how much you want to learn and how much time you are willing to devote to something like the QH.

-Dale

So, it does not have a channel for wideband readings or can you use a dataq like we do with a Tweecer.
Matt only lives about 5 minutes from me. So we learn it together :D

[Dale McPeters]

So, it does not have a channel for wideband readings or can you use a dataq like we do with a Tweecer.
Matt only lives about 5 minutes from me. So we learn it together :D

Yes you can still use the dataq for wideband reading etc...:D

Note that you will still have to setup your transfer curve for the kind of WB that you are using...

[banditmwp]

i was sold on a tweecer but if moates can do it better, i am willing to try it. I am not afraid of the learning curve, i'm a fairly smart guy :D

[Dale McPeters]

i was sold on a tweecer but if moates can do it better, i am willing to try it. I am not afraid of the learning curve, i'm a fairly smart guy :D

Just remember that you can not read the stock binary out of the eec just yet with the QH.....the only down fall that I have found so far.

But most common binaries are available on the web though.....

I do not have this problem as I have all of the Ford based Moates hardware to date....:D.

For now I can probably send you a stock binary to start with if you can tell me the catch code...

[ncontt]

any updates Dale???? I'm going to be needing something once I get the new turbo (here SOON I hope!!!!) Momma gets a nice bonus July 1!!!!!

[Dale McPeters]

any updates Dale???? I'm going to be needing something once I get the new turbo (here SOON I hope!!!!) Momma gets a nice bonus July 1!!!!!


Yes the Moates Quater Horse works great!!! :D

But it will still take $$$ to get setup to tune properly.
I think the price breaks down to something like this >

QH is still $249
Clint's BE/EA software about $130 (I think)

Or you can use Paul Booth's software which is cheaper I think he posted something on the cost for this on the Moates web page. I will take a look this afternoon and see what I can find. I have used Paul's software since early 2000 so I know it works properly and he can crack almost any binary and update the patches very well. It just does not have the bling that most youngsters want now days. Which I do not mind as I am an old fart myself...:jester:

Ok here is the update on Paul's EEC-Editor software that he posted on the Moates website >

All licenses are per 'strategy'. For instance, GUFB captures many of the 1989-93 V8 Mustangs, but it is considered a single strategy.

General pricing structure is as follows:
$20: EEC4 (pre-1996) DEF license for making calibration changes.
$30: EEC5 (1996-2004) DEF license.
$25: EEC4 DLM license for datalogging via QuarterHorse (again, strategy-specific).
$35: EEC5 DLM license.

$50: Create a basic Emulation/Editor strategy definition for previously unsupported vehicle.
$90: Create a more extensive Emulation/Datalogging combo definition for use with QuarterHorse for previously unsupported vehicle.

For example, if you want to burn chips for an A9L GUFB car, and you planned to get the JayBird and F3 module, you would only need to purchase the $20 Editor Definition for GUFB. So for $75(Jaybird)+$60(F3)+$20(license), you can program your own chips.

Want to program your buddy's 1994 T4M0 CBAZA? Add that option for only $20 more with an additional editor definition.

Decide later on to get a $249 QuarterHorse and you want to add realtime emulation for both definitions? No additional licensing costs. Want to add datalogging via QuarterHorse for both strategies? It'll run you another $25+$25 for those add-ons.

Still even at that point in this possibly confusing scenario, you're into it only $384 in hardware and $90 in software, and you can tune any number of 1989-95 Mustangs for only $60 a chip module extra. Not too shabby!

If you need additional definitions, you can add them individually to your cart for checkout, each with the different range of options selected.

REMEMBER!
If you're adding this item to your cart, you should have already downloaded and installed the software (see link below) on the PC you plan to use it with. Then you can go into the "Help->Request Registration Number" option. This number must be submitted in the comments field when you finalize your order.

[ncontt]

Thanks Dale, I had the stuff from Clint YEARS ago (seems like) when I had the tweecer, and I was about to get my coupe running with the twinturbos, which I ended up selling, I don't know if he even still has a record of my getting it....lol

[jonosranger]

Man im likin this already :jester:

[Dale McPeters]

Thanks Dale, I had the stuff from Clint YEARS ago (seems like) when I had the tweecer, and I was about to get my coupe running with the twinturbos, which I ended up selling, I don't know if he even still has a record of my getting it....lol

If Clint has been keeping his records correctly he should have a record of yours some where....You may have to resend the machine code from your laptop for him to be able to check.

By the way off to the dyno in the morning for a free test & tune unless something changes. I need to get a baseline with the 306 in the cobra before the Dart and other stuff goes in....maybe it will make 330 to the tire with the 306 n/a. :D

[ncontt]

Thanks Dale, GOOD LUCK!!!! SPIN EM if you got em!!!

[Dale McPeters]

Thanks Dale, GOOD LUCK!!!! SPIN EM if you got em!!!

Brad,

I almost forgot but here is what the baby 306 put down.
334 rwhp / 296 rwtq

Not to shabby for a QH tune by me sitting in the shop dialing it in and a few quick runs down the back roads....:D

Now the AEM, bigger motor, injectors etc. and a 'lil boost can be installed. :banana:

[coupe]

:nice: That's outstanding! :metal:

[Dale McPeters]

:nice: That's outstanding! :metal:

Yep it really surprised me. I think the rebuild and new springs etc. on the AFR's along with a little touch of the flapper wheel really helped the flow. I also did a little updating on the distributor, wires, plugs etc. etc....

I just hope the baby 363 and a 15-17 lbs of boost puts down more than Lee F. did with the D1 blower.....:jester:

[ncontt]

really thinking of this again Dale.....just been so long since I even messed with the tweecer and I never had it running with it (got a JMS flip chip). I have had at least 3 tweecers and sold them all before I got the car running...story of my life buying parts and selling them before I get the car going....but momma is going to be moonlighting with another Dr's office and $75/hour is in the future :banana2: :chug: so I am putting together my wish list...lol

[Dale McPeters]

You will not be disappointed. :D

Just remember that you can not read the stock binaries from the EEC-IV with the QH.
I have all the stock EEC-IV binaries though so that will not be a problem at all.

Drop Clint G. an email and see what he can do about the reg number for your laptop too.

Dale

[ncontt]

Kewl....I can't even remember what computer I have in the fairmont now...A9L or A9P....either way ya got me covered sounds like.

I'll let you know when it gets a bit closer to pulling the trigger.

Thanks.

[ncontt]

Dale, getting ALOT closer on pulling the trigger on this...any regrets so far? Opinions...

Thanks.
Brad

[Dale McPeters]

Nope no regrets at all....but as I stated before I have all of the Moates hardware so there is not much I can't do with an EEC-IV gufb strategy...

By the way my QH is getting moved to another vehicle and the AEM EMS is going back in the '93 cobra......:D

[93cobra1928]

I just read last night that the newest revision of the
quarterhorse will read the stock binary from the EEC.

Not that it wasn't readily available but now you don't
need to search for it.

[Dale McPeters]

I just read last night that the newest revision of the
quarterhorse will read the stock binary from the EEC.

Not that it wasn't readily available but now you don't
need to search for it.

Where did you read that at?
Did someone let the cat out of the bag?

If that is the case then he needs to update his website....

I didn't think Craig was going to implement that just yet......shows you how far behind I am....:jester:

[93cobra1928]

Read it over on eectuning and I could have sworn the quoted
it from the moated website. It was in a reply by popsracing IIRC

[93cobra1928]

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16240

It's in this thread Dale

[Dale McPeters]

Read it over on eectuning and I could have sworn the quoted
it from the moated website. It was in a reply by popsracing IIRC

Yep you are correct as usual...:D
Craig implemented it in the latest 1.6 version of the firmware.
Now I have to send mine back again........it is going to be wore out from mailing back and forth..:lol:
I did not know as I have been playing with AEM stuff for the past few months...

So get one of the QH's and get to tuning you guy's!!!!! :jester:

[coupe]

...So get one of the QH's and get to tuning you guy's!!!!! :jester:
Aye aye captain!

http://www.itsnotanoption.co.uk/photos/Captain%20Rob_small.JPG

[Dale McPeters]

Aye aye captain!

http://www.itsnotanoption.co.uk/photos/Captain%20Rob_small.JPG

:lol:

[nxcoupe]

Dale, I have a whole bunch of questions for you on this moates quarterhorse. I currently use SCT for tuning, which one of the softwares should I get that is a kiss style of software? Anything else besides the chip and software I need to buy? Sorry for all the questions, I am just eager to learn more about this stuff.

[93cobra1928]

Dale, I have a whole bunch of questions for you on this moates quarterhorse. I currently use SCT for tuning, which one of the softwares should I get that is a kiss style of software? Anything else besides the chip and software I need to buy? Sorry for all the questions, I am just eager to learn more about this stuff.

Clint Garity's Binary Editor and EEC analyzer. Right now it's the only software that supports the latest release of the Quarterhorse. You can download it free from his website and play around with it but full functionality requires a license.

http://www.eecanalyzer.net/DocMan/GuestOut.php

A wideband is a must, but you probably already know that

[nxcoupe]

Thanks, I will download it and check it out. How, what hardware besides the chips do you need? anything?

[93cobra1928]

Thanks, I will download it and check it out. How, what hardware besides the chips do you need? anything?

All you need is the Quarterhorse and a laptop, it comes with a usb cable to hook the up. As far as a wideband goes there are several options for using it. You can tap into the EGR input, use a serial port, or some use a DataQ. Here is a good site for info.

http://eectuning.org/forums/

[Dale McPeters]

Dale, I have a whole bunch of questions for you on this moates quarterhorse. I currently use SCT for tuning, which one of the softwares should I get that is a kiss style of software? Anything else besides the chip and software I need to buy? Sorry for all the questions, I am just eager to learn more about this stuff.

93cobra1928 is correct about the software and the QH.
If you are using an SCT to tune an EEC-IV car you are still in the dark ages...:lol:

With the QH & Clint's BE/EA or even Paul Booths EEC-Editor software you can make changes to any table, scaler etc. while the car is running and never have to shut it off to pull the chip and re-burn it like you do with the SCT dealer or pro-racer packages.

This makes drive ability tuning a breeze. Of course if you are the one tuning you want to have someone else drive the car....:jester:

You can also run a datalog through EA and let it make changes to the tune and fine tune certain things like injector pw which is very helpful with some injectors.

Also do not listen to ALL of the internet lore that you hear about DYI tuning as some of it is really overboard....:D

If you need any help let me know and I will help as time permits.

[nxcoupe]

Hey thanks for the info! I have been tuning EEC's for about 10 years now, went with SCT because 6 years ago they were the only ones on the block with a professional package for a speed shop like me. I have felt that being able to data log would help immensly with tuning an older EEC, but truthfully, most of my tuning I do is the 96 up mod cars, with about 25% being the older eecs.
I downloaded the software instructions from binary editor and it looks basically like what I have been using for years with the SCT software, basically all of it is the same, just some have different percs. I like what I am hearing about the QH from both of you. Now, what about their line of std chips? They seem cheap and might be an alternative for customers that are looking for a cheaper route than SCT.
So all I would need is the QH and then some chip burning stuff for the std chips? And what will automatically correct your tune for you?
Thanks again!

[Dale McPeters]

Yep for the J3 module chips you will need the chip burner and the adapter board that goes in between. The J3 modules run about $60 ea. You can use the QH to datalog and get then tune right and then burn the binary to a chip.

EEC-Analyzer will be used to run the datalogs through and it will make changes that you can save and write back to the QH.