Need help with this issue

[Wickd GT]

Well you guys know my Son and I finish his turbo Mustang build up. Car was running fine before we took it to the Dyno. After the Dyno car started to do a bad jerking and misfire. We took it back to the Dyno to recheck everything in the tune, but tune is fine. We drove it and car still does it. This happens at cruise only, when the rpm reaches 1500-2000rpm you can hear the momentary skip and when it goes into overdrive forget it, your kidneys are coming out of you. Car at full throttle will not do it, it runs like a raped ape. So this is what I have replaced to no results:

1.Check all grounds
2.New MSD 8.5 spark plug cables
3.New MSD rotor and Cap
4.New plugs gap at .032" Autolite 3923's
5.New TFI module
6.New Distributor
7.Put new vacuum lines.
8. Tested, without the wastgate, tested with the blow off valve to see if is leaking, but all checked out.
9.Check the Mass air and clean the mass were the diodes are.
10. Check without the chip, just the stock computer.
11. Check the harness at the connection to the injectors harness
12. unhook the MSD box
13. Put old Coil
14. Check the turbo
15. Replace both O2 sensors

All of this did not make any improvements. I have spent a ton of money chasing this crap, then to top it off the AOD took a crap. Mike rebuild it completely, everything check out in the bench, well guess what! The damn thing still does not want to down shift, stall the motor when coming to a halt, hangs in second, makes a terrible squeal sound when manually shifted. Adjusted the cable loose tight middle, I hate that cable. So, this is my last effort, looking at getting a bullet proof built AOD from Silverfox.com or a C4 with a transbreak, and put a set of 3.08 or 3.27 so the motor wont be hanging the tongue in the highway.
Any of you guys that are experience with fuel injection can point me to the right direction, before I loose my mind and put a match to this thing and burn it to the ground, that's how close I am. I need to get this fix before I put a new tranny in here, and this one needs to survive until I can find this problem. If this can't be fixed, I'll buy the car from my Son and I'll part it out to the ground.

Edgar

[EHardy1971]

Did you check the TPS for a flat/dead spot?

[Wickd GT]

Did you check the TPS for a flat/dead spot?

The tuner said the TPS was fine, so I'm going by that. Don't have a clue to check this. Someone told me to do a sel test jumping the self test something with KOEO, Key on engine off. Did I ever said I HATE FUEL INJECTION!!! Damn!!!

Edgar

[waypastcrazy]

need more info.what boost at 1500 to 2000 if any?now and before the tune.What timing now and before?it dont take much change if the working compression was borderline before then something is different at that rpm than before such as more timing, fuel delivery,octane,engine temp,boost,engine load etc.air intake charge is slower and hotter at lower cruise rpm.have u done all the little things such as using a colder plug with the top electrode barely reaching over the center electrode and the top electrode being rounded off around the corners, as wide a gap as possible with a good ignition system valve coating etc.What is the dish piston how far in the hole what shape what cc head ?whats gasket thickness?bore stroke and rod length?and what are the cams intake and exhaust valve opening and closing timing.with all that going on i would get transmission problem corrected first because it could be causing to much or not enough load on engine causing timing,fuel delivery or boost to not be in sinc.just my .02 cents come on guys lets make this a learning thread lord knows I need to learn some stuff.:popcorn:
Clyde

[waypastcrazy]

Also is the aod modulelated or msnual valve body because I would think in a boosted app u would push boost thru the vac line or atleast not have proper vac under boost?not sure on that maybe someone with more experience will chime in lol

[EHardy1971]

Also is the aod modulelated or msnual valve body because I would think in a boosted app u would push boost thru the vac line or atleast not have proper vac under boost?not sure on that maybe someone with more experience will chime in lol
AOD doesn't have a vacuum modulator Clyde. What about the BAP sensor, have you checked that Edgar?

[waypastcrazy]

Eric I have seen several with modulater valves if memory is correct I had a 85 truck aod I traded recently and have a 86 ranger with one now and my 93 mustang aod had a modulator valve and my 92 ford explorer 4x4 has one also lol

[waypastcrazy]

Never mind I am thinking of the a4ld trannies

[SvoBrown]

I had a lifter that exploded and caused something like that. Valve stayed open then stayed shut. Beat the hell out of the cam.

another time had an injector bank start going out on the puter. Caused the same thing.

It sounds like the timing is jumping up and down. You might see something with the light on the dyno at cruise speed.

Can you drive it with the spout out, Timing locked and see if that is it. Go low to be safe.

[Wickd GT]

I had a lifter that exploded and caused something like that. Valve stayed open then stayed shut. Beat the hell out of the cam.

another time had an injector bank start going out on the puter. Caused the same thing.

It sounds like the timing is jumping up and down. You might see something with the light on the dyno at cruise speed.

Can you drive it with the spout out, Timing locked and see if that is it. Go low to be safe.

I have done everything imaginable I can think of. So, there is friend of mine here that has a shop, which the Ford dealers from around here go to him because they can't do something they can't do and has tools and software they don't have to diagnose. So I took it to him and has check wiring harness, Injectors, timing etc... All has passed. Then he drove it and he call me back. He told me that he is certain this is a very lean condition at cruise, how is 17:1- 19:1 A/F ratio between 1200-2000rpm! He even said to me it was scary to see that AFR. He is waiting on some other diagnostic software that he order and then he is going to check Monday the computer, he is going to take it apart and then read whats in the computer. He has the Quarter horse tuning stuff and is going to test the car live with the laptop and have the computer Live with the person who sells this product and see what is going on. Then if he fixes this problem then I'm going to buy a Bullet proof AOD from http://www.silverfoxtrans.com

Check that site. This guy is the one that did the tranny for the guy in Orlando that travell in his twin turbo to Commerce for the NMRA. He did the true street came runner up with 8.8x average, load up his stuff and drove back to Orlando thats 1,000 miles round trip and the tranny survive. Lets see, if he can't find it, which he is an ex technician from Ford when he worked in the Ford factory at Detroit or Michigan, then this thing is either going to be sold or I'm going to part it out completely to the ground.

Edgar

[waypastcrazy]

Dang thats deadly lean

[Wickd GT]

Dang thats deadly lean

Put it this way, he pulled the O2 sensors and you can light up a cigarette.

Edgar

[swammi]

try thw mass air flow had a supercharged car do similar and that and the o2s were bad.

[QWKSNKE]

Like I told you a few weeks back, sounds like the tune. Brian spent several days street tuning the cobra when it had the blower on it. Fox computers are not like the late models. You MUST street tune the MAF to get it right at different rpms and loads.

Don't worry, you guys will get it cleared up, if you can't do it here, take it to Dale :D

[Wickd GT]

Like I told you a few weeks back, sounds like the tune. Brian spent several days street tuning the cobra when it had the blower on it. Fox computers are not like the late models. You MUST street tune the MAF to get it right at different rpms and loads.

Don't worry, you guys will get it cleared up, if you can't do it here, take it to Dale :D


If this was in the tune, why is it when I take the chip out, it still does the misfire at 1200-2000rpm? That is the puzzle of all this. If I run it with it, without it and even with the NA chip does it. So far, the guy working on it with the Moates/Quarterhorse data logging on the street can't find it. Like I said, pretty soon if this does not get resolve, the entire turbo kit, Hot side, cold side, Intake, injectors etc, will be up for sale. Then go carb and that will be the end of it.

Edgar

[QWKSNKE]

If this was in the tune, why is it when I take the chip out, it still does the misfire at 1200-2000rpm? That is the puzzle of all this. If I run it with it, without it and even with the NA chip does it. So far, the guy working on it with the Moates/Quarterhorse data logging on the street can't find it. Like I said, pretty soon if this does not get resolve, the entire turbo kit, Hot side, cold side, Intake, injectors etc, will be up for sale. Then go carb and that will be the end of it.

Edgar

What is base timing set at? What is the timing doing at that rpm?

What MAF is on the car? Has it been datalogged in the low rpm at various loads?

[Wickd GT]

What is base timing set at? What is the timing doing at that rpm?

What MAF is on the car? Has it been data logged in the low rpm at various loads?


He is doing the data log on the street at all gears. Now Base timing is at 10* with the spout out, in the tune don't have a clue. This guy is working on all that. So lest see what happens, but I have not heard from him today. Mass is a C&L 80mm with the green sample tube for the 42lbs injectors.

Edgar

[ncontt]

I know "alot" of people have had problems with the C&L's....but not sure if that might be it or not...although you did say that the problem persists whether the chip is in or not correct? I've got the PMAS 3" protube on mine and I can crank it up and drive it around with 60# injectors with just a stock computer.... Mine ran decent enough (albeit with a $h!T ton of exhaust leaks) just like that but I was scared about boosting it and running it lean....

Have you tried a different meter? :shrug:

[QWKSNKE]

Yep Edgar, Brad is right.
I have money that the C&L meter is the problem. Italian had problems with his, pretty sure Sendero could never get his tune right with the stock 4.6 and a C&L. There were others here that had problems with them. As a matter of fact we quit being a dealer for them because of all the problems we saw out of them.

I believe Brian's car did the exact same thing when he had the c&l on his car. Get a PMAS 80 on it and it will clear up. If you have a problem finding one, check with Anderson Ford. That used to be the only meter they would carry

[1sicklx]

I know "alot" of people have had problems with the C&L's....

You can count me in that group ... I'd consider looking at a different meter. I had nothing but problems with the C&L.

Hope y'all get it worked out.

[Wickd GT]

Well my tuner call me last night. He said he got it tune and fixed, he said there is turbulence in the air meter. So he wants to move the blow off valve and the Mass air meter away from the curve of the inter cooler, move it a bit higher, he said about 3-4" so the air can straighten out. Ok here it goes, I was at Montgomery last night helping Mike with his limited street car, when I get a text from my tuner to call him. I said oh shit this thing blow up! Well he said I have it tune and corrected, but then he ask me what internals are in the motor, I said everything is forge, but the block is stock. He said " Well I can't go any further I have it at 552hp and 672ft lbs and have not yet hit 80% duty cycle on the injectors and the Mass is not even close to be pegged!!! Oh and that's on 9psi!!! I said how you know that, you were only tuning on the street. He said he went to Wayne's dyno which has the eddie brake on it and made a couple of pulls to check his tune and he said the car is big time violent at the hit. The torque comes in right at 3000rpm and stays that way, Damn!!! Now he said to make it better need to fixed the Tranny. So I said to him that I'm going to order an AOD that hold 950hp with a full manual valve body.
Here is the kicker, he said I want to take this one off and put the new one in at no charge to you, my name is on this car and I want to be put out there. I said DEAL!! This guy got the Moates/Quarter horse program and with the company that sold him this equipment got live with him on his laptop and looked at everything he did, he said to him, you don't need my help you have right on. This guy tunes the newer model Mustangs through the SCT hand held stuff and showed me a car that was pretty much stock, an 03 cobra, and I could not beleive the Hp he got out of it. This guy is a Ford genius! Our local Ford dealers come to him for help and tools they don't have and can't get, this guy has it.

So the person that was Live with him on the tuning read the tune from the SCT chip, quote " Who ever tune this car he only tune for WOT, only and did not run it on the street for cruise tune. All parameters were off big time making the computer fight against all or any changes made. One thing they found was that the O2 sensors were fighting each other. The O2 sensors are in a 45* angle in the down pipe, so driver side was telling the computer that it was lean but the passenger side was signaling that it was rich. So tuner turn the drivers side off and all eight cylinders are reading from the passenger side one.

Anyway this guy is very friendly down to earth and a great person to deal with plus he is into racing too. You should see the F250's diesels, Duramax and Dodge when he tunes them. I saw an F250 with 39" tires and a raised kit, bad ass truck, showed me after he put studs and new gasket to a 6.0 stroke, blow off all four tires at the hit, I'm saying like there were stock tires on them, I was shocked when I saw that.

So, he still has the car and said to me, until the tranny gets here he will make more adjustments until he gets it perfect. To say I'm a happy customer, yes and will put my neck on the line recommending him to anyone. His shop is called Pro Masters, in Enterprise.

Edgar

[SilverBack]

That's good to hear Edgar! It's amazing the power a turbo car will make. Better be careful with that stock block...seems a lot of the turbo 5.0 guys have broken them when over 500rwhp.

Who did the SCT tune that was no-good?

[Wickd GT]

That's good to hear Edgar! It's amazing the power a turbo car will make. Better be careful with that stock block...seems a lot of the turbo 5.0 guys have broken them when over 500rwhp.

Who did the SCT tune that was no-good?

You have a PM

[QWKSNKE]

Well my tuner call me last night. He said he got it tune and fixed, he said there is turbulence in the air meter. So he wants to move the blow off valve and the Mass air meter away from the curve of the inter cooler, move it a bit higher, he said about 3-4" so the air can straighten out. Ok here it goes, I was at Montgomery last night helping Mike with his limited street car, when I get a text from my tuner to call him. I said oh shit this thing blow up! Well he said I have it tune and corrected, but then he ask me what internals are in the motor, I said everything is forge, but the block is stock. He said " Well I can't go any further I have it at 552hp and 672ft lbs and have not yet hit 80% duty cycle on the injectors and the Mass is not even close to be pegged!!! Oh and that's on 9psi!!! I said how you know that, you were only tuning on the street. He said he went to Wayne's dyno which has the eddie brake on it and made a couple of pulls to check his tune and he said the car is big time violent at the hit. The torque comes in right at 3000rpm and stays that way, Damn!!! Now he said to make it better need to fixed the Tranny. So I said to him that I'm going to order an AOD that hold 950hp with a full manual valve body.
Here is the kicker, he said I want to take this one off and put the new one in at no charge to you, my name is on this car and I want to be put out there. I said DEAL!! This guy got the Moates/Quarter horse program and with the company that sold him this equipment got live with him on his laptop and looked at everything he did, he said to him, you don't need my help you have right on. This guy tunes the newer model Mustangs through the SCT hand held stuff and showed me a car that was pretty much stock, an 03 cobra, and I could not beleive the Hp he got out of it. This guy is a Ford genius! Our local Ford dealers come to him for help and tools they don't have and can't get, this guy has it.

So the person that was Live with him on the tuning read the tune from the SCT chip, quote " Who ever tune this car he only tune for WOT, only and did not run it on the street for cruise tune. All parameters were off big time making the computer fight against all or any changes made. One thing they found was that the O2 sensors were fighting each other. The O2 sensors are in a 45* angle in the down pipe, so driver side was telling the computer that it was lean but the passenger side was signaling that it was rich. So tuner turn the drivers side off and all eight cylinders are reading from the passenger side one.

Anyway this guy is very friendly down to earth and a great person to deal with plus he is into racing too. You should see the F250's diesels, Duramax and Dodge when he tunes them. I saw an F250 with 39" tires and a raised kit, bad ass truck, showed me after he put studs and new gasket to a 6.0 stroke, blow off all four tires at the hit, I'm saying like there were stock tires on them, I was shocked when I saw that.

So, he still has the car and said to me, until the tranny gets here he will make more adjustments until he gets it perfect. To say I'm a happy customer, yes and will put my neck on the line recommending him to anyone. His shop is called Pro Masters, in Enterprise.

Edgar

I knew it had to be the tune or the meter. Like I told you a few weeks back when Italian and I did the procharger tune on my cobra we did at least a few weeks worth of datalogging and tune changes on the street to get it right. I bet we would put 200 miles worth of datalogging and make tune adjustments every 30-40 miles.

If he has it right, car should still get good fuel economy while making big power. we had the cobra at 536rwhp and a hair under 21mpg on the highway with the a/c on.

[ncontt]

that's awesome!!!

[Wickd GT]

By the way, this is all happening at up 5000rpms, he didn't want to go further cause the power was still climbing. I just put a deposit on an AOD 700 hp tranny with full manual valve body from www.Silverfoxtrans.com Built for Cheo's car specs. Lifetime warranty, can't beat that.

Edgar

[EZ SPEED]

Awesome !! congrats!:chug:

[Wickd GT]

Here is the Dyno sheet:

[SlowJoe]

you better watch it he is going to blow by you!:jester: glad you got it work out:metal:

[coupe]

Glad you went with Dan @ Silverfox Transmissions!

I've talked to him about built AOD's before also.

He's prominent over on www.clickclickracing.com (http://www.clickclickracing.com) :nice:

[BLOWN95GT]

Who did the SCT tune that was no-good?
^x2 I hope to be ready to tune my turbo car soon and don't want the headache you had!

[waypastcrazy]

Glad you found someone to do it correct.think I stick to my on tuning.lok

[Dale McPeters]

Here is the Dyno sheet:

Good job!!! :nice:

Edgar PM me the guys name so I will know if it is the guy I am thinking of...

[Wickd GT]

Car is now running like a Cadillac, damn this thing is touchy. The converter is to loose, so has to be sent back to PTC so it can be tighten up. I decided to lower the boost to 7psi, so it will not split the block. Adam and Matt has it in a very safe tune. We only had a small window to tune due to the converter would not hold load at the lower rpms and it will shoot up to 5000 rpm and that's when the converter will put the load on the motor. So in a Mustang Dynamometer (which reads lower hp and tq) and a loose converter, and 7lbs of boost, 454.5hp and 454.2 ft lbs!! This is through the new AOD silver fox transmission. It is a blast to drive. Here is the Dyno sheet. Thanks again Adam at Popsracing.com from N.Y. and Matt at Pro Masters here in Enterprise, this was live on the Dyno.

Edgar

This is done with a quarterhorse/moats software. If anyone with EEC fox that needs tuning, this is the guy to do it. Pro masters, Enterprise, AL. Not only he can tune this he can tune the newer Mustang models with SCT and he can do some mean tuning on Diesels trucks, Ford, Duramax, Dodge...

[qkjuicedpony]

Dang Edgar let's see what it will run!!!

[Wickd GT]

Dang Edgar let's see what it will run!!!

Sometime this week I'll pull the converter to have it tighten up then take her to the track.

Edgar

[Dale McPeters]

Edgar I posted a thank you note on eectuning.org for Adam to say thanks for helping out....;)

And by the way he said the maf transfer curve that was in that sct chip was junk....:lol:

[Wickd GT]

Edgar I posted a thank you note on eectuning.org for Adam to say thanks for helping out....;)

And by the way he said the maf transfer curve that was in that sct chip was junk....:lol:


Yea I know, he told me. Thanks Dale.

Edgar

[Wickd GT]

Well is been a while. We finally got the tranny issues fixed. Then with the tight converter the hesitation and jerking came back. Car has been in the shop since 22 Dec and finally yesterday I got it back. There was problems with the laptop then he order a new one and didn't come until Jan 3rd, then the tunner got real sick. But he finally got it fixed. Car runs great cruises in overdrive with no jerking and the tranny and manual valve body will knock your crowns out when I'm on the throttle hard. Now, we need is good weather to take it to the track.


Edgar

[QWKSNKE]

Nice!!

[Wickd GT]

Oh one more thing. My Wife! drove the car and I told her how to shift it, she liked it. Then I told her, it is time now for you to drive mine. She said bring it! I said when it gets a bit warmer ( due to the drag radials) we are going for a spin, he,he...

Edgar