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jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 04:47 PM
Ok, so my 95 GT is off. dont know why... neither does anyone else... it idles WAY low...like 450, and jumpy when cold. And when i wind it up above 2000, it cuts out until i let it get warm, and then cool it off with a 2 stage fan... then it runs good below 4500 rpm, at witch it cuts out to nothing, its like its rev limited... SMOG pump is DSCNected, but all the egr is still intact, with exception to the wiring harness to the EGR valve... i disconnected it... timing is good... but my harmonic is alittle warped, still w/ in tolerances... keep in mind that it runs OK after it warms up, and cools back down...

also, if anyone can help me with egr removal, it would be appreciated, i need the plugs, and if possible, the resistor, and what do you do about the loss of air to the valve cover?

Wall96cobra
05-17-2005, 04:52 PM
Well just off the top of my head it sounds like you're getting unmetered air in somewhere. Do you have any mods done to the car?

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 05:01 PM
well... its FIPK, bbk off road h pipe NO CATS, borla side exit , the SMOG pump is DSCN and im getting ready to pull the EGR system, suspension,which has nothing to do with it, and gears... also nothing to do with it, brakes, wheels... again nothing to do with it... the FIPK is SEALED and the intake manifold is still all stock... i need to fix that but it needs funds... air into where?

Wall96cobra
05-17-2005, 05:33 PM
Start by checking your maf and see if it need to be cleaned. You can take the black box off the maf and you will see to small wires that go down into the maf sensor housing. You can clean those with a q-tip and alcohol or electronics cleaner but be VERY careful because they are brittle wires. I would probably go ahead and unhook your battery to reset your computer also. It could also be a bad maf or unmetered air (any air that is getting in the motor AFTER the maf, could be between the maf and throttle body or a vacuum leak around the intake).

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 05:49 PM
ALREADY CLEANED THE MAF... the wierd thing is that the MAf doesnt really change the affect on the car at idle... it still works, cuz above idle with no maf and then plugging it in, drops the RPM... i will check the vacuum... but there is a limited amount of outgoing vacuum lines, i will check, and i will reset the computer and see what happens... anything else?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:12 PM
Are you running the stock MAF still? You mentioned that it runs ok after it warms up, is this under 4500 or is it ok all the way up to 7k rpm?

I agree with Wall96, it sounds like you have unmetered air getting into the engine (air coming in somewhere after the MAF).

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:18 PM
no as long as i keep it below 4500 it is OKAY when it warms up, and then cools back off... yeah its still the stock MAF... it is very weird... oh and by the way... is there anything that you would do to disconnect the OBD2 or make it not work, because mine does not, i bought the car used, and this is the first problem i have had... i cannot get my obd2 to connect to the module to get a reading... so i dont know if it is MAF related or not... it is NO GOOD above 4500 at all... ever since this started

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:20 PM
You can't get the scanner to hook up to the car? That is very strange. Will it not fit the plug at all or will not turn on to scan when hooked up?

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:21 PM
no the thing connects... turns on and everything... it just says unable to connect... and scrolls it... no matter what i do... even a model specific scanner wont work...

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:27 PM
Could it be a bad EEC?

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:29 PM
god i hope not... i dont even know how to go about finding out... except to multi test it... other than to get another one... and that doesnt sound cheap... how would i check... i dont know computers... i can talk all day about mechanics... but computer problems hit me like a brick...

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:32 PM
That's what I am trying to figure out. The only way, would be to maybe pick one up from a salvage yard. Do you have a Autozone where you are at? If so, you could limp the car there and see of their scanner will pull anything up. (just to verify your scanner is working correctly)

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:32 PM
i guess the eec controls the MAF... pretty much all the induction and fuel systems in the engine itself right?

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:35 PM
yeah i have tried all the major auto part stores, and even afew auto shops that offered free daignostics.... and NO TING it is still driveable, but it hurts... everytime the damn thing jumps... as long as i keep it below about 2 grand when it is cold it wont do much, but when i cross the 2 grand mark... it cuts out really bad, all the way across the range, and wont push much past 3500 at all... until it warms to about 210... then i turn the high fan and let it cool back to 190 and it runs OKAY

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:39 PM
you dont mean ecu do you? is there a diff between the ecu and the ecc?
and if it was, do you think it would cause other problems besides just the problems i am facing?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:43 PM
yeah i have tried all the major auto part stores, and even afew auto shops that offered free daignostics.... and NO TING it is still driveable, but it hurts...

Damn dude, this is interesting. So everybody's scanners are unable to 'connect' to the EEC? Its got to be bad or one of the external grounds is unhooked at the EEC. Take your pass side kick panel off and make sure their are no loose grounds.

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:45 PM
you dont mean ecu do you? is there a diff between the ecu and the ecc?
and if it was, do you think it would cause other problems besides just the problems i am facing?


EEC, ECU, PCM, etc they are represent the car computer.

Wall96cobra
05-17-2005, 07:47 PM
Sounds like you have a chip, I do believe if you have a aftermarket chip in the computer then you will not be able to read codes.

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Sounds like you have a chip, I do believe if you have a aftermarket chip in the computer then you will not be able to read codes.

ahh. I didn't know that. Look for a chip hooked to the computer

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 07:51 PM
okay, well i will check the grounds, i dont think it has an aftermarket computer, but when i check it for grounds im sure if it is aftermarket, it will have logos all over it...

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 07:54 PM
EEC, ECU, PCM, etc they are represent the car computer.


These are not aftermarket computers. They are different abbreviations for the car computer

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:03 PM
yeah roger got that... i understand... it just has the eec iv that it is supposed to have... i think i just removed all the stuff in front of it for the first time... it has definately never seen human hands... so no it is still just the EEC 4 computer that comes stock in it

Wicked
05-17-2005, 08:06 PM
Sounds like you have a chip, I do believe if you have a aftermarket chip in the computer then you will not be able to read codes.

I use a generic diagnostic card in a PGM tester and I can read my codes even though I have a chip. Just FYI.

I agree with Lee, check all grounds and connections(fuse box, etc). It may help to have a wiring diagram that shows all the connection of the diagnostic line from the ecu to the diagnostic port.

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:09 PM
i checked the direct coneections to the comuter, and already checked all the fuses... i am planning on checking the wiring on the daig connector...ive been fighting this for a month... if the EGR valve electronic transducer was stuckhalf open that might create a big big problem... and even cause the free air leak... and also send the computer into convulsions... couldnt it?

Wicked
05-17-2005, 08:14 PM
i checked the direct coneections to the comuter, and already checked all the fuses... i am planning on checking the wiring on the daig connector...ive been fighting this for a month... if the EGR valve electronic transducer was stuckhalf open that might create a big big problem... and even cause the free air leak... and also send the computer into convulsions... couldnt it?

Its possible.

Italian LX
05-17-2005, 08:17 PM
Sounds to me like your losing fuel somewhere. Possibly someting that is not sealing well when it's cold; maybe your regulator is doing some weird stuff. Have you checked your fuel pressure?

Do you have the stock fuel pump? If not, how long ago did you put the aftermarket one in? I had a very similar problem that ended up being a loose clamp on the output port of the fuel pump that allowed blow-by and, in turn, a starvation of the fuel lines.

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 08:18 PM
Sounds to me like your losing fuel somewhere. Possibly someting that is not sealing well when it's cold; maybe your regulator is doing some weird stuff. Have you checked your fuel pressure?

Do you have the stock fuel pump? If not, how long ago did you put the aftermarket one in? I had a very similar problem that ended up being a loose clamp on the output port of the fuel pump that allowed blow-by and, in turn, a starvation of the fuel lines.


True, but there is still something strange if a scanner will not 'connect' to his computer

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:21 PM
i havent checked the fuel pressure... because it didnt enter my mind that fuel might be a problem until my buddy asked me if i had replaced the fuel filter... which would be an obvious problem... but the fuel seems fine.. because it runs rich as hell... you can tell by the smell if nothing else... but neveretheless i am gonna replace the filter... and i still have all stock fuel components... you gotta draw down the vacuum to check the regulator pressure dont you?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 08:22 PM
unhook the vacuum line on the regulator and hook a fuel press gauge on the port that is around the fuel rail somewhere

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:24 PM
yeah... that is way off... the guy that i bought it from drove it in SCCA and claims he won races... the suspension is more than adequate to do it also... and the body parts show track wear... but he said he never abused it... right... but it was a stock race, he showed me the " entrance prerequisites" and they provide for stock comuter... maybe he was just getting the idiot light to stay off... for the smog pump... but when i DSCN the wiring harness the idiont check engine light came on... IM CORNFUSED

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:25 PM
unhook the vacuum line on the regulator and hook a fuel press gauge on the port that is around the fuel rail somewhere

thats all you gotta do to check the FPR?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 08:26 PM
yep

Italian LX
05-17-2005, 08:31 PM
thats all you gotta do to check the FPR?
Yeah.

While you have the guage hooked up and the vacuum line removed, rev the motor up and watch the guage. It should move very little (if at all). If it does move, let us know how many PSI it drops and where it started from.

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:33 PM
okay... who would advise removing the EGR system and capping it so that i dont have to worry about the air leaks? since im not using it anyway?

Italian LX
05-17-2005, 08:35 PM
okay... who would advise removing the EGR system and capping it so that i dont have to worry about the air leaks? since im not using it anyway?
:wave:

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:43 PM
is that a yes?

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 08:52 PM
well im out gotta go to bed... i will let you all know what happens tommorrow... or whenever... goodnight all

Sendero
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
Ok, I am going to ask a really stupid question so bear with me.

When you hook up the scanner are you following this procedure:

Plug ODBII scanner into the ODB port under the drivers side dash.
Place the key position to Key ON / Ignition OFF
Press Connect or Read (on the Actron Scanners. Big orange ones.) and it should start with the codes.

If none of this works, then I would suspect the EEC just for the simple fact that if the OBD are not working then no matter what you try to fix the computer will still be screwy.

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 09:16 PM
yeah, we definately did it right... over and over and over... but if the base systems are still working, then how cann it be the ecc?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 09:23 PM
could be just a certain part of the EEC that is bad

Sendero
05-17-2005, 09:23 PM
yeah, we definately did it right... over and over and over... but if the base systems are still working, then how cann it be the ecc?

Because the EEC does have a failsafe to allow the car to "limp" in for repair. I'd still look at all the supporting stuff to make sure its within spec (fuel, MAF, IAC valve, plugs, wires). It could be something simple or something complex. Everyone has made excellent suggestions about what it could be and those are the most common things.

But if the EEC is not doing its On Board Diagnostics there are some bigger issues coming.

Sendero
05-17-2005, 09:34 PM
Checked the TFI module on the distributor?

QWKSNKE
05-17-2005, 09:38 PM
Checked the TFI module on the distributor?


:doh:


EDITED nevermind. I thought we were talking about a 96 cobra for some reason

Sendero
05-17-2005, 09:43 PM
:doh:


EDITED nevermind. I thought we were talking about a 96 cobra for some reason


:jester: I would of asked about the flux capacitor if we were talking about Mod motors.

jwillburn119
05-17-2005, 10:06 PM
JUST REPLACED PUGS AN WIRES, I AM STILL IFFY ABOUT THE IAC it was the first thing i went to... but it seems to be working, i dont even know what a TFI module is... so... i think the ecu runs around 120... which isnt bad, but i dont want to replace it, and still have the problem... is there any possible way to have it tested that is cheaper than buying a new one?

Italian LX
05-18-2005, 05:21 AM
Checked the TFI module on the distributor?
:doh:

He doesn't have a TFI module on the distributor. :shake:

Italian LX
05-18-2005, 05:24 AM
is that a yes?
Well... it was.... until I remembered that we are talking about an EEC-V. I'm not sure how fhe smog equipment removal effects those ECU's. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

QWKSNKE
05-18-2005, 05:25 AM
94-95s are still EEC-IV's. So yes he remove all of his EGR stuff.

There is no performance gain out of it though

Italian LX
05-18-2005, 05:26 AM
94-95s are still EEC-IV's. So yes he remove all of his EGR stuff.

There is no performance gain out of it though
Oh yeah... but aren't the computers real picky about stuff?

QWKSNKE
05-18-2005, 05:29 AM
yeah they are

Sendero
05-18-2005, 07:50 AM
:doh:

He doesn't have a TFI module on the distributor. :shake:

:doh:

Excuse me, I forgot the SN-95's have theirs externally mounted. Its on the radiator core support right?

Italian LX
05-18-2005, 09:05 AM
:doh:

Excuse me, I forgot the SN-95's have theirs externally mounted. Its on the radiator core support right?
Nope, it's over on the passanger-side frame rail under the airbox.

86GT
05-18-2005, 10:27 AM
By caping off the EGR you will hurt performance. The EEC pulls spark if the EGR has poped a code.

I did not read the entire post, so forgive me if I missed something, but the MAF can be unplugged. This will only work if the car has the factory injectors and MAF, and so on. The EEC will go into limp mode with out the MAF. This can test the driveability during cold starts and so on. In theory this would test the MAF sensor it self. It could be reading colder for some reason.

Another concern would be the internal voltage regulator in the EEC. If it has gone out then all of the inputs will be screwed up and the car will run bad. This would also affect the ODBII connection.

Just food for thought

Wicked
05-18-2005, 04:46 PM
Another concern would be the internal voltage regulator in the EEC. If it has gone out then all of the inputs will be screwed up and the car will run bad. This would also affect the ODBII connection.

Just food for thought

He could use a multi meter and check one of his 5 volt sensors to see what the input voltage is. If its right at 5V, probably okay. If its off, maybe you are right about the ECU.

QWKSNKE
05-18-2005, 05:02 PM
I didn't think the 94-95 cars were OBD II. Did that not start in 96?

Sendero
05-18-2005, 05:10 PM
I didn't think the 94-95 cars were OBD II. Did that not start in 96?

That is correct. :doh: I am suffering from your disease today.

QWKSNKE
05-18-2005, 05:15 PM
If he is truly trying to connect a OBD II scanner to it, that would explain why it doesn't connect :shrug:

Wicked
05-18-2005, 05:29 PM
If he is truly trying to connect a OBD II scanner to it, that would explain why it doesn't connect :shrug:

OBD I and II had different connections shapes. The wrong reader should not connect at all.

QWKSNKE
05-18-2005, 05:30 PM
True that

Wicked
05-18-2005, 06:37 PM
I am finding that the OBD I applied to 95, 96+ is OBD II.

http://www.corral.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-223354.html

Where is the connector that you are hooking your scanner to? Have you looked for other test connectors. Seems 95 guys have trouble with this. They say the 30 Autozone scanner will not work. I would try the OBD I scanner and see if you get better luck.

You probably have to use the OBD I port under the hood, driver side strut tower I think. You can then use a cheap Autozone scanner. I have been reading that maybe the V6's had OBD II and shared a cabin harness with the V8 OBD-I models.

jwillburn119
05-18-2005, 08:19 PM
hey its definately OBD II because the OBD I wouldnt fit at all... II started in 1995, all around... and i dont thin there are any other test modules anywhere that will connect old school... there are factory ones for certain parts... the maf doesnt change the way the car runs at all at idle, but at above idle it changes RPMS... like an idiot i am gonna try the fuel filter... and the reason i am removing EGR.. is because the valve is disconnected, and i half think it might be stuck half open... allowing UNMETERED air in... but i really dont see how that would make for worse performance... are there any reprogram mod for the 95? i dont think so... but surely there is a programmer out there... all the stuff i was told last night i did, and it still sucks... drove it to work today, and it still cuts out in all ranges... but only with a load... no load it will max out without a second thought... im totally at a loss... gonna replace the O2 censors this weekend to see if it helps... and maybe check the fuel reg...

jwillburn119
05-18-2005, 08:21 PM
True that



so what is your compression with that d1?

banditmwp
05-18-2005, 09:03 PM
I'm almost willing to bet you have a bad EEC, simply for the fact that you can't get a scanner to connect.

When we did my wife's auto to manual tranny swap a few weeks ago, the EEC we got to go with it was used, and when we tried to reprogram her PATS key (96+ anti-theft key) at the dealership where I work, the Ford scanner wouldn't connect. I bought a new EEC and it connected and everything works fine now.

Granted, hers is an EEC-V unit, but the same theory applies. If it can't connect to the diagnostics unit, most likely there is something fried in the EEC.

Check with NAPA and/or Carquest, they tend to have better pricing and availability on EEC-IV units. :chug:

coupe
05-19-2005, 10:25 AM
When we did my wife's auto to manual tranny swap a few weeks ago...

:D How's that clutch going?

PonyChick
05-19-2005, 04:29 PM
:D How's that clutch going?

Already broken in. :D

Craig K.
06-03-2005, 06:39 PM
If you have a down stram O2 sensor (total of 4), then you have OBD II. If you have only one O2 sensor per side (total of 2) then you have OBD I.

Some companies started OBD II requirments earlier than others, so perhaps Ford had started on a certain engine/tranny package. But most OEM's had waited until a model year and then changed over the whole platform.

My 1995 Cobra has one pair of O2 sensors, so it would be considered OBD I. My 1996 Cobra had 2 sets of O2 Sensors, so it would be considered as OBD II.

As far as your problem goes, have you had any luck since your last post?

Also check and make sure the wires in the connectors which you are plugging into are truly makeing a connection. It is not uncommon that these are damaged during in plant testing on the assembly line (don't ask why I know this). These wire connectors are not ment to be used many times, so they are usually not made of the best material.

Wicked
06-03-2005, 07:52 PM
As far as your problem goes, have you had any luck since your last post?



Hey you...over here.

http://forums.qwiksnake.com/showthread.php?t=2343&page=2&pp=20

91HATCH
08-21-2006, 01:17 PM
hey its definately OBD II because the OBD I wouldnt fit at all... II started in 1995, all around.

not true... all mustang 5.0's were obd 1 up to & including 95.

this is one reason why ford went to the 4.6 in 96, so they wouldn't have to design the obd 2 for the 5.0 for the short term.

if you have an obd2 connecter under the dash, then the car originally came with a v-6 or it's not a 95 or someone re-wired it.

this would also explain why no scanner would work.