View Full Version : datalogging and drivability issues
QWKSNKE
08-21-2005, 07:23 PM
As you may or may not know, I recently installed 60# injectors and picked up a 55# MAF (Pro-M univer). Well last weekend and this weekend Italian LX and I did a good bit of driving trying to dial in the MAF curve.
Issues.....
1st) I am having a lot of bucking when attempting to cruise at a steady speed. Also noticed when I hit WOT it will stumble for a minute, pick up and run strong for about 1500 rpm, and then start stumbling really bad.
2nd) KAMRF's are not moving. Drove around 60 miles today and the KAMRF's never moved. What causes that? This has never been a problem in my car after resetting them. Car is not in OL when we are observing them.
93Cobra#2771
08-22-2005, 02:17 PM
1. Bucking - usually a lean condition at those points - try richening the MAF curve up in those areas. I assume this is with light throttle, or no throttle?
WOT stumble - separate from the bucking, I'm guessing you have too much "accelerator shot" - the 60's don't need as much as the 42's, so scale back your function/accel enrichment multiplier and see if cutting fuel back will help.
2. KAMRF's not moving? I seem to recall a few people having that issue on the tweecer board. Good luck finding the old post :poke: :soapbox:
Are you SURE it's not in OL? There was a bug in CalEdit that didn't light the OL/CL flag correctly. If KAMRF's are not moving, you either have your MAF transfer curve PERFECT *yeah right*, or you in in OL. The new MAF curve prob. has your load values off some, so what once was light load may now be heavier load or vice versa.
Maybe Clint or Dale will chime in here, as I have zero experience tuning blown combos.
Italian LX
08-22-2005, 02:29 PM
1. Bucking - usually a lean condition at those points -
I thought bucking was usually due to being too rich or too much timing. :think:
Are you SURE it's not in OL? There was a bug in CalEdit that didn't light the OL/CL flag correctly. If KAMRF's are not moving, you either have your MAF transfer curve PERFECT *yeah right*, or you in in OL. The new MAF curve prob. has your load values off some, so what once was light load may now be heavier load or vice versa.
Yeah, that's what we were thinking. We datalogged the loop condition and it seems to be staying in CL during normal cruising (and we verified that it goes into OL when the TPS gets above 2.70v).
The loads do seem to be high under acceleration, but they linger around 25-35% during normal cruising. I would think that would be low enough to allow logging of new fuel trims.
The weird part is that the BANK1 KAMRF's do fluctuate down to .996 during some conditions, but that is all.
QWKSNKE
08-22-2005, 03:39 PM
Yeah, that's what we were thinking. We datalogged the loop condition and it seems to be staying in OL during normal cruising (and we verified that it goes into CL when the TPS gets above 2.70v).
you have that backwards. Should be CL during cruising and OL above 2.7 volts on the TPS
Italian LX
08-22-2005, 03:46 PM
you have that backwards. Should be CL during cruising and OL above 2.7 volts on the TPS
Ooops. I was typing fast and didn't proof read. :huh:
. . . i'll edit it.
Dale McPeters
08-22-2005, 04:09 PM
Take a look at this link Chris M. made a post on the 60lb/hr injectors on a car that he tuned.
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31774#31774
Might give you a better starting point?
Wicked
08-22-2005, 04:54 PM
I thought bucking was usually due to being too rich or too much timing. :think:
You can get bucking with lean or rich, same way a backfire can occur due to either.
If your fuel trims are not changing then that is obviously the culprit because there is no feedback to add or subtract fuel during closed loop. What have you done lately that might have caused this?
QWKSNKE
08-22-2005, 04:59 PM
I don't have them but did tune a car with them (97 Cobra). They run rich at idle. Here is a good starting point for you.
High slope - 60
Low slope - 72
Breakpoint - .000029892
Injector_comp_batt_volt
VBat Mult
15.999756 0.3389
15.000000 0.3389
14.000000 0.4121
13.000000 0.4893
12.000000 0.5908
11.000000 0.7412
10.000000 0.9336
8.000000 1.4463
6.000000 2.5410
0.000000 2.5410
0.000000 2.5410
0.000000 2.5410
crank_fuel_pulsewidth
65534.000000 0.00140
180.000000 0.00140
150.000000 0.00197
70.000000 0.00349
40.000000 0.00700
20.000000 0.00909
0.000000 0.01401
-20.000000 0.02242
-40.000000 0.02451
-65536.000000 0.02451
-65536.000000 0.02451
I am confused because I think the tables are different between the late model and fox body cars.
i went ahead and started changing one of my files to reflect the cranking pulse width. Significant change compared to what I had but I feel like that his are correct.
On the Injector_comp_batt_volt is this different than injector offset vs battery voltage? It looks similar but the parameters are slightly different than what Chris listed.
Be careful with the battery offset function. The EEC-IV and EEC-V use different hardware drivers for the injectors. This means the offsets for a given injector size will be different for an EEC-IV verse an EEC-V.
If I recal correctley the EEC-IV requires .6 volts on the driver to open the injector and the EEC-V requires .75 volts. It does not seem like much but it will affect the offsets.
QWKSNKE
08-22-2005, 08:00 PM
thought something was different. that's why I just saved the file I changed and did NOT write it to the pcm yet (wanted more info :nice: )
93Cobra#2771
08-23-2005, 06:34 AM
Just thought of something, Lee.
Scaler/Time @ High Load to Force OL - what do you have that set at? If at zero, try setting it back to stock 2 seconds, or maybe a little higher (X3Z is at 8 seconds, believe it or not).
IF it is set at 0 seconds (like caledit recommends), then high load will trigger OL almost instantly.
Just a thought, anyway...
Italian LX
08-23-2005, 06:38 AM
Just thought of something, Lee.
Scaler/Time @ High Load to Force OL - what do you have that set at? If at zero, try setting it back to stock 2 seconds, or maybe a little higher (X3Z is at 8 seconds, believe it or not).
IF it is set at 0 seconds (like caledit recommends), then high load will trigger OL almost instantly.
Just a thought, anyway...
I think his is still at 8 seconds; I remember seeing it set there while we were tuning. However, I did a lot of looking back and forth between his tune and the stock tune, so I may have only seen in the X3Z tune.
Dale McPeters
08-23-2005, 08:55 AM
Be careful with the battery offset function. The EEC-IV and EEC-V use different hardware drivers for the injectors. This means the offsets for a given injector size will be different for an EEC-IV verse an EEC-V.
If I recal correctley the EEC-IV requires .6 volts on the driver to open the injector and the EEC-V requires .75 volts. It does not seem like much but it will affect the offsets.
Yep I forgot to mention that as I was in a hurry to get home and work on my little project....:jester: .......Sorry...
You can still use the numbers as a starting point and modify them though as required.
Lee one other thing that I had a problem with was the sealevel load scaling with the Displacement & Univer that I have, it took a little while getting the maf dialed in correctly to hit the proper afr, load, & rows etc. in the tables for fuel & spark. I had the same problem that you describe as far as the bucking etc. I ended up having to richen certain points of the maf versus what EA recommended to get the load etc. where I wanted it. I did not have to adjust it by much but it was just enough to make the difference that I needed for my particular application.
Also Richards comment on Scaler/Time @ High Load to Force OL will make a difference for you also.
If you are seeing 30-40 load at idle more than likely the sealevel load scaling maybe off just a little. On the Accel Pump adjustment I had to cut mine almost in half from what the 42's were kind of like on the old holley carbs when you pump in to much fuel and it bog's down. But this was only in my application.
One other thing that maybe of some help is the accel multiplier vs tp function if needed.
Since I am new to the super charger world, what are you running for the accel multiplier function and or scalar. I keep seeing post where people are increaseing the third 'x' in the function to say 0.6. It appears to follow displacement or S/C size. Is that not the case? I have also read that the global accel multiplier in the scalars needs to be increased to say something like 1.2.
I have also heard about the accel table vs TP rate. Cal Edits limits you to I think 62. What are these units?
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 10:07 AM
Since I am new to the super charger world, what are you running for the accel multiplier function and or scalar. I keep seeing post where people are increaseing the third 'x' in the function to say 0.6. It appears to follow displacement or S/C size. Is that not the case? I have also read that the global accel multiplier in the scalars needs to be increased to say something like 1.2.
I have also heard about the accel table vs TP rate. Cal Edits limits you to I think 62. What are these units?
I have not changed any of those items Clint
Dale,
The sealevel load scaling isn't off much. its pretty low at idle (high teens I think) and steady cruising. (low 20's) That's one of those items that I need to do on a dyno. Kinda hard to go WOT long enough on the street to datalog that parameter.
As far as richening up certain points, I am sure that is what I will have to do. I need to find out why the KAMRF's are not moving. I know it isn't because the MAF is dailed in already. I couldn't get that lucky.
Dale McPeters
08-23-2005, 10:39 AM
Since I am new to the super charger world, what are you running for the accel multiplier function and or scalar. I keep seeing post where people are increaseing the third 'x' in the function to say 0.6. It appears to follow displacement or S/C size. Is that not the case? I have also read that the global accel multiplier in the scalars needs to be increased to say something like 1.2.
I have also heard about the accel table vs TP rate. Cal Edits limits you to I think 62. What are these units?
Clint,
It should be the 3rd "y" function that is adjusted. All it does is adjust to give more or less fuel.
The Scalar is a global adjustment.
The table is
min = 0
max = 63.75
if I remember correctly. I forgot what the actual units are and I do not have my little "book" with me at the moment.
I will look at my tune when I get home and let you know what I have for these. But it will be way to far on the rich side for your car...because of my injector size. As these also play a roll in this....
Dale McPeters
08-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Dale,
The sealevel load scaling isn't off much. its pretty low at idle (high teens I think) and steady cruising. (low 20's) That's one of those items that I need to do on a dyno. Kinda hard to go WOT long enough on the street to datalog that parameter.
I know what you mean even with all these desert roads out here it is still awfully easy to get one of those high dollar tickets. Best if done on a dyno.
As far as richening up certain points, I am sure that is what I will have to do. I need to find out why the KAMRF's are not moving. I know it isn't because the MAF is dailed in already. I couldn't get that lucky.
You can also use the high injector slope for global changes just in case you did not know. The number does not have to be the actual injector size if you need a way to make global changes. As long as load calc's are ok. My test with the TwEECer for high is 89.999, low is all I can get at 112 (I think those numbers are correct). But in my case I am not going to have enough adjustment with the eec....
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Just thought of something, Lee.
Scaler/Time @ High Load to Force OL - what do you have that set at? If at zero, try setting it back to stock 2 seconds, or maybe a little higher (X3Z is at 8 seconds, believe it or not).
IF it is set at 0 seconds (like caledit recommends), then high load will trigger OL almost instantly.
Just a thought, anyway...
It is still set to 8 seconds.
My Accel pump multiplier-Global is set at 0.796875
what are you running for the accel multiplier function and or scalar. I keep seeing post where people are increaseing the third 'x' in the function to say 0.6. It appears to follow displacement or S/C size.
you lost me here. where is this item at
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 03:45 PM
just for fyi
Current MAF transfer (part 1)
http://www.qwiksnake.com/Tweecer/MAFtransfer.jpg
other half
http://www.qwiksnake.com/Tweecer/Maftransfer2.jpg
It was the 'Accel Enrichment Multiplier vs TP' fun ction that I was refering to. The third 'Y' value is what I see changed most often.
The stock 'Accel Pump Multiplier - Global' in the scalars is 0.390625, so your at 0.796875. What is your injector size?
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 05:29 PM
It was the 'Accel Enrichment Multiplier vs TP' fun ction that I was refering to. The third 'Y' value is what I see changed most often.
The stock 'Accel Pump Multiplier - Global' in the scalars is 0.390625, so your at 0.796875. What is your injector size?
24# stock.
Now I am at 60# injectors
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 05:32 PM
It was the 'Accel Enrichment Multiplier vs TP' fun ction that I was refering to. The third 'Y' value is what I see changed most often.
3rd column is....
x= 2.207
y=0.54688
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 06:51 PM
Cool Thanks
I should also add that this should be the OEM value since this is not a parameter I have adjusted
That can not be factory, both the X3Z and A9L both have 0.29688 as the third 'Y' value.
What did you use as your base tune? X3Z?
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 07:45 PM
That can not be factory, both the X3Z and A9L both have 0.29688 as the third 'Y' value.
What did you use as your base tune? X3Z?
:hmm:
Actually I used Mike's X3Z binary.
Let me run out to the car and do a read on with the Tweecer bypassed. I can do that, right?
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 07:53 PM
nope. I guess not
Dale McPeters
08-23-2005, 08:08 PM
How did you arrive at the transfer function that you posted?
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 08:15 PM
from here http://forums.qwiksnake.com/showthread.php?t=3288
I loaded it, the car did not run well, and richened it until the car would go down the road. I am running a 55# univer and that is what this particular flow data came from
Dale McPeters
08-23-2005, 08:19 PM
oops I had forgotten that Disney had posted that........well you have a starting point..... :jester:
QWKSNKE
08-23-2005, 08:37 PM
oops I had forgotten that Disney had posted that........well you have a starting point..... :jester:
yeah..if I can ever get the kamrf's to move where EA can do some analyzing :nice:
yeah..if I can ever get the kamrf's to move where EA can do some analyzing :nice:
If you have the WB logged then the EA can figure it out for you.
Ok guys you need to look closely at the Accel Enrichment Fuel Table if you are still using 1.30A9 as the ECT & TP-Rate are backwards from what they should be........................
They are as follows...
ECT = "X"
Tp-Rate = "Y"
They are incorrect in the Caledit 1.30A9 software if I remember correctly as the numbers are not correct...........not sure if Mike ever got the database fixed for this.......
Thanks Dale, I remember reading that but totaly forgot about it.
Italian LX
08-24-2005, 05:00 AM
If you have the WB logged then the EA can figure it out for you.
That would work fine. . . if he had a WB. :D
QWKSNKE
08-24-2005, 07:17 AM
That would work fine. . . if he had a WB. :D
will the AEM wideband work?
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WA2FAST
08-24-2005, 08:24 AM
Hey there guys, some of you may recognize me from other boards. I have been watching this thread as I ordered up my #60's for my A9L TwEECer'd - 87' GT last week and they should be here today. I am going to ship my meter out early next week to get it re-cal'd from the new Professional Mass Air Systems (company that bought the rights/equipment from Pro-M). In the meantime, I have been looking to see what info there is out there in regards to tuning with these new injectors. I was wondering if any of you guys have gotten a decent tune down with these injectors yet. If so, if you could post your A9L injector battery comp data and any other info related to tuning with these injectors (coming from #42's), I would GREATLY appreciate it. Thank you a ton!
QWKSNKE
08-24-2005, 09:02 AM
Hey Don...
I am slowly working on it. Maybe by the time you get your meter back, I will have some of these items worked out.
QWKSNKE
08-24-2005, 04:54 PM
Since there are about 3 different topics in this one thread, I am going to split it up into different threads so that it won't be so cluttered and easier to read/search for down the road :nice:
EDIT....
This has been split off into threads with their own topics. Should make it easier to keep up with the communication
93Cobra#2771
08-25-2005, 06:54 AM
Welcome to the board, Don! :welcome:
Dale McPeters
08-25-2005, 04:12 PM
Yeah welcome to the board, Don! :welcome:
QWKSNKE
08-25-2005, 05:38 PM
What do you guys recommend? Go ahead and try driving the car for an additional 20 miles or so and see if the kamrf's start moving more.
-OR-
Make some more adjustments in the MAF curve first? If so, should I richen?
How far off are the KAMRF's? If they are way out go ahead and make the adjustments now. If they are close then drive more to so that more accurate data is collected. I would not worry about the fine tuning (long datalogs or long learning time) until you get them close with the course adjustments.
QWKSNKE
08-25-2005, 07:21 PM
they are not moving at all. Car has at least 60 miles on it since they were last reset.
This most likely means the MAF and or injectors are more than 12.5% lean or rich. If the EEC detects more than the +- 12.5% error, then the EEC will not update the KAMRF. This is because the EEC thinks there is something else wrong. It does not want to over correct for a problem that exists somewhere else. I believe it is called FEM mode. It is something like Failure E??? Mode.
There are three possible causes of this, Injector slopes, MAF or offsets. It could also be a combination of these. If you believe the MAF to be the culprit then do the following:
Set all of the cells in the 'Adaptive Update Rate' table to 2. The cells that I am referring to are rows 0 to 8. Row zero is the bottom most row. This will allow the KAMRF to update at a faster rate.
You can now sit in the driveway and adjust the idle points up or down individually until the KAMRF's start to move. Make sure to note what the MAF was when you started. Make sure to note and record the amount you change it. Now calculate the percentage of change. Then adjust the original curve by that percentage. This will allow you to find the MAF point without have to start and stop the engine. Each time you start the engine you will have to wait about 3 minutes before the adaptive can start to learn.
There are people that say they would not use the CalEdit’s Update feature, but this is one that I have use with no problems. There is one thing to keep in mind while doing this. Do not update the MAF or any other parameter while the EEC is using that parameter. I usually rev the motor up a tad, say 1300, and while holding the RPM there, I hit the update. For some reason the EEC does not like it when you update a parameter while it is using it.
If you believe the injector slopes are the culprits then do the following:
Set both slope to the same value and adjust up or down while in the driveway using the same method as above.
If you believe the injector offsets are the culprits then do the following:
Move the current voltage point up or down in the same manner as the MAF explanation. Remember, to note where the point was originally so you can calculate a percentage of change. You will then need to move the entire curve by that percentage.
What fuel pressure are your injectors rated for? If they are rated at 2 bar (43.5psi) and you have the fuel pressure set to factory then you maybe using the wrong slope setting. For the 60's the new slope would be 56.8 if you have the factory fuel pressure.
Ok I’m out of breath
After re-reading this post, do you have the original 9pt flow sheet? You are battling three unknowns. This is not good. You will pull out all the hair you have and all of ours trying to get this tuned. It is best to illiminate the unknowns if possible.
I recently had to do this too. I actuall installed the factory MAF and air box. This gave me a good known MAF. I did not have to worry about clocking or any other MAF related issue because I had the entire factory setup. It did not have to be installed all nice and neat. I just had the air box up in the air with the hood open sittin in the driveway (No driving).
I was then able to set the slopes to 42's minus the factory fuel pressure difference. This is something like 40.6. The only thing left was to dial in the offsets. The offsets were the only unknown.
Once the slopes and offsets were dialed in all I had to do was put my custom MAF back in and dial that in.
Worked like a champ.
Sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to move forward.
QWKSNKE
08-25-2005, 08:49 PM
. If you believe the MAF to be the culprit then do the following:
Set all of the cells in the 'Adaptive Update Rate' table to 2. The cells that I am referring to are rows 0 to 8. Row zero is the bottom most row. This will allow the KAMRF to update at a faster rate.
You can now sit in the driveway and adjust the idle points up or down individually until the KAMRF's start to move. Make sure to note what the MAF was when you started. Make sure to note and record the amount you change it. Now calculate the percentage of change. Then adjust the original curve by that percentage. This will allow you to find the MAF point without have to start and stop the engine. Each time you start the engine you will have to wait about 3 minutes before the adaptive can start to learn.
There are people that say they would not use the CalEdit’s Update feature, but this is one that I have use with no problems. There is one thing to keep in mind while doing this. Do not update the MAF or any other parameter while the EEC is using that parameter. I usually rev the motor up a tad, say 1300, and while holding the RPM there, I hit the update. For some reason the EEC does not like it when you update a parameter while it is using it.
ok..just so that I am clear.
I am bringing the engine revs up just to get it out of the range so to speak of the parameter I am changing. So I can do this without shutting the car down every time?
Yep, It works for me every time.
QWKSNKE
08-25-2005, 08:53 PM
After re-reading this post, do you have the original 9pt flow sheet? You are battling three unknowns. This is not good. You will pull out all the hair you have and all of ours trying to get this tuned. It is best to illiminate the unknowns if possible.
I recently had to do this too. I actuall installed the factory MAF and air box. This gave me a good known MAF. I did not have to worry about clocking or any other MAF related issue because I had the entire factory setup. It did not have to be installed all nice and neat. I just had the air box up in the air with the hood open sittin in the driveway (No driving).
I was then able to set the slopes to 42's minus the factory fuel pressure difference. This is something like 40.6. The only thing left was to dial in the offsets. The offsets were the only unknown.
Once the slopes and offsets were dialed in all I had to do was put my custom MAF back in and dial that in.
Worked like a champ.
Sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to move forward.
No. This is what's killing me. I am wondering if i should just go ahead and send it back to Pro-M (or whatever they are called now) and have it recal'd for 60's so that i will have a new flow sheet (it is currently a 55 # MAF).
I am using flow data that Disney put in another thread about 10 down from this one
QWKSNKE
08-25-2005, 09:00 PM
Here. Right?
http://www.qwiksnake.com/Tweecer/adaptiveupdate.jpg
True, but if you still have the meter that you replaced it with or the factory one then you can dial evething else in and then dial in the unknown MAF.
Dale McPeters
08-26-2005, 07:20 AM
Lee it is worth the $100.00 to get a new flowsheet for the exact maf that you are using because if you do not have it you may have to dial in the whole curve from bottom to top. Which can be very time consuming. I had to do the same thing on my 4" Univer, it is worth it in the long run. The reason that I say this is because of the resolution that you have at the lower parts/points of the curve. These points become very critical when you go to 60lb and larger injectors. This is even more of an issue on a street car and at idle. Send a pm to Chris M. on the eectuning.org site and he can tell you first hand about the rich idle issues etc. with 60lb/hr injectors and the bigger maf's... ;)
Or you can do like I did when I first installed my univer before I had it calibrated. Use the stock maf curve as a starting point and dial it in point by point..... :jester:
If you have the older maf that you took off you can do as Clint suggested and install it until the univer gets back usually takes a couple of weeks. That way you can tinker with the injector battery offsets etc.
Or you can have Bob (boss96) drive up from Florida to help out as I hear that the water is getting deep down there about now......
boss96
08-26-2005, 08:56 AM
Or you can have Bob (boss96) drive up from Florida to help out as I hear that the water is getting deep down there about now......
Thanks, Dale :)
Actually, we were quite blessed, not much rain/flooding, pretty fast winds but it only took out my cheap Pep boys canopy which I may be able to put back together. We had no electricity though from around 7pm until 6am but at least it was not very hot. Had some fun trying to cook a steak on the gas grille, everytime I tried to light it flame would go out.
I think further south, like Miami, got the worst flooding.
Anyway, yeah, sure, send the car down here, should be fun to tune :jester:
Bob
Dale McPeters
08-26-2005, 09:07 AM
Bob,
Glad everything is ok there was kind of worried about you when I saw some of the news this morning. By the way those Pep Boys canopies are wonderful !!!
Have you taken a look at EFI Punks website lately to see if he fixed the A9L tuning stuff? I tried to but for some reason I can not get to his site this week.
boss96
08-26-2005, 10:02 AM
What is the link? I've been there before but don't have it bookmarked.
Bob
QWKSNKE
08-26-2005, 10:04 AM
Lee it is worth the $100.00 to get a new flowsheet for the exact maf that you are using because if you do not have it you may have to dial in the whole curve from bottom to top. ..
ok. What is the name of the company now?
QWKSNKE
08-26-2005, 10:05 AM
Or you can have Bob (boss96) drive up from Florida to help out as I hear that the water is getting deep down there about now......
Thanks, Dale :)
Actually, we were quite blessed, not much rain/flooding, pretty fast winds but it only took out my cheap Pep boys canopy which I may be able to put back together. We had no electricity though from around 7pm until 6am but at least it was not very hot. Had some fun trying to cook a steak on the gas grille, everytime I tried to light it flame would go out.
I think further south, like Miami, got the worst flooding.
Anyway, yeah, sure, send the car down here, should be fun to tune :jester:
Bob
What part of Florida are you in Bob?
boss96
08-26-2005, 10:39 AM
Fort Lauderdale, are you in Fla too?
Bob
Dale McPeters
08-26-2005, 10:55 AM
What is the link? I've been there before but don't have it bookmarked.
Bob
http://www.geocities.com/efipunk
Dale McPeters
08-26-2005, 10:56 AM
ok. What is the name of the company now?
Professional Mass Air Systems or PMAS
http://www.massairsystems.com
QWKSNKE
08-26-2005, 11:24 AM
Fort Lauderdale, are you in Fla too?
Bob
nope. I am in east central Alabama
Italian LX
08-30-2005, 05:33 AM
. . . Set all of the cells in the 'Adaptive Update Rate' table to 2. The cells that I am referring to are rows 0 to 8. Row zero is the bottom most row.
Hey. . . why is that table not available for the A9M computer strategy? :think:
Not sure, Mike just has not added it, but if you use one of the binary editors it would be avaliable.
QWKSNKE
08-30-2005, 06:56 PM
haven't had time to fool with anything yet (to busy this weekend)
I think to make it easy and more accurate, I am going to wait until I have the money and send the pro-m back (either my old one or the one I am using now)
QWKSNKE
09-05-2005, 03:53 PM
Set all of the cells in the 'Adaptive Update Rate' table to 2. The cells that I am referring to are rows 0 to 8. Row zero is the bottom most row. This will allow the KAMRF to update at a faster rate.
You can now sit in the driveway and adjust the idle points up or down individually until the KAMRF's start to move. Make sure to note what the MAF was when you started. Make sure to note and record the amount you change it. Now calculate the percentage of change. Then adjust the original curve by that percentage. This will allow you to find the MAF point without have to start and stop the engine. Each time you start the engine you will have to wait about 3 minutes before the adaptive can start to learn.
Instead of sitting in the driveway and doing this, I changed the update table and did a good bit of driving yesterday and today. Then let EA do its magic with the MAF curve 3-4 different times. Kinda weird but their are rich points and lean points on the curve between 0 and 2.9 volts (max I can do on the street)
Is there anything wrong with me using the 'quick' adaptive update on my initial tuning? Should I do this for a week or so and then change the tables back?
You can do it either way, but make sure the low load points (below idle) are referencing other cells and not positive numbers. You do not want learning enabled during decel.
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 06:55 AM
. You do not want learning enabled during decel.
I am confused. Wouldn't this happen anyway with the adaptive table set the way it was. This brings me to another question too.... My original table had 10's and 100's mixed up in the cells (if I remember correctly). Is this normal?
The 100's caused the adaptive to learn slower than the ones with 10's. Ford put the 100's in the area of the stock idle.
The cells that represented loads below idle and WOT are all negative numbers. This means that they reference other cells. By referencing the other cells adaptive learning is disabled, but the learned value for the referenced cell are applied.
This is why we say that the adaptive is applied at WOT but the learning is disabled
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 02:58 PM
The 100's caused the adaptive to learn slower than the ones with 10's. Ford put the 100's in the area of the stock idle.
The cells that represented loads below idle and WOT are all negative numbers. This means that they reference other cells. By referencing the other cells adaptive learning is disabled, but the learned value for the referenced cell are applied.
This is why we say that the adaptive is applied at WOT but the learning is disabled
Should I look up the stock x3z binary and whatever is the negative #'s go ahead and change them back?
Attached is what I run with. The second one is the one that I use during tuning of the MAF.
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 03:12 PM
yeah. I had started changing them while waiting for you to respond.
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Does this look right to you? Combination of quick update with the oem x3z negative cells....
http://www.qwiksnake.com/Tweecer/adaptupdate.jpg
Yes, except the second row from the top that is not labeled. It is actually 75% and it needs to be set to 10 also.
Depending on your idle load you might want to set the idle 39% row to 2 also.
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 05:05 PM
Did you notice the load values were different between our cars?
I did notice that. The row that is not showing the value is defined in FN021
QWKSNKE
09-06-2005, 07:45 PM
ok. we'll see what happens tomorrow. Loaded the changes in.
Car is starting to drive a lot better but has a long way to go (again)
Italian LX
09-06-2005, 08:12 PM
Not sure, Mike just has not added it, but if you use one of the binary editors it would be avaliable.
Can you elaborate on this. I would really like to use that adaptive table, but I can't since it's not in the A9M strategy.
On a similar note. . . even though I have an A9P computer, can I use the A9L binary along with its strategy, or is the hardware of the CPU actually different?
If you have access to a binary editor, you can change the values. The table is in the same memory location as the A9L. I use two different programs. The first one I have been using for about two years. Its called PCMX explorer. I have defined about 5 more tables, about ten more functions and a mess load of scalars for the A9L. I'm sure alot of them will be the same for the A9M. The second program was written by barney on the tweecer groups. It is freeware for now. It has a nice feature that can compare binaries. The ony problem with this one is that it is a little buggy, but it works. Either one of these programs allows you to save to the original binary.
If you are asking about the functionality of the adaptive update table, I could elaborate on that too, but I think that one has been covered.
I have heard that the A9L will run on the A9M but I think there will be some intermitten problems. Since the memory addressing is not the same there is bound to be some hickups, but for the most part the main adrress are the same and therefore the car should run. I just don't know how well.
Shoot me a copy of you binary and I will send you back two binaries with the above tables.
Italian LX
09-07-2005, 06:32 AM
If you are asking about the functionality of the adaptive update table, I could elaborate on that too, but I think that one has been covered.
Nope, you answered exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, Clint. :nice:
Italian LX
09-07-2005, 06:33 AM
Shoot me a copy of you binary and I will send you back two binaries with the above tables.
I'll try to remeber to send it to you when I get home tonight. Thanks again. :nice:
QWKSNKE
09-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Update..
its getting better. still have decelaration bucking
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