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gt90stang
10-22-2005, 11:35 PM
Hi all,

Been busy lately trying to figure out an issue I've been having with my KB Blowzilla install. I've learned more about this than I ever intended. See:
http://www.geocities.com/dbennettya/Mustang_PCM/A9P_ACT_101.doc

Good Luck, Don

PS I'd like to thank 86GT for helping me with this.

Dale McPeters
10-23-2005, 12:29 PM
Glad you guy's figured it out. :nice:
Just an FYI for others this will also work on the later models. Although I forgot what the ohm resistance was........:unsure:

Dale McPeters
10-23-2005, 03:52 PM
Well while we are on this subject......
I wonder what this 5 way switched contraption could be?

Maybe an ACT 5 way switch? :jester:

gt90stang
10-23-2005, 09:25 PM
Dale,

I don't believe that you posted those pics of a flux capacitor gyrator network. There goes our extra 50 HP advantage!

Don

Dale McPeters
10-24-2005, 07:12 AM
Dale,

I don't believe that you posted those pics of a flux capacitor gyrator network. There goes our extra 50 HP advantage!

Don

:lol:

93Cobra#2771
10-24-2005, 08:34 AM
Well while we are on this subject......
I wonder what this 5 way switched contraption could be?

Maybe an ACT 5 way switch? :jester:


Elaborate, please. :D

Dale McPeters
10-24-2005, 09:19 AM
Elaborate, please. :D

Well Lee Hay and I were taking a look at the dustructo rod & main bearings etc. on my old 347 when we commenced to discussing the effects of boost and air charge temps yesterday. I proposed the idea of building a switched gizmo for different levels of boost etc. for ACT/ECT temps. That is when he told me that he had already built such a unit back when he used to have his '94gt, and low and behold he commenced to drag out his prototype...anyway this led to what you see in the pictures above. The switch positions are as follows

pos #1 = 32 deg
pos #2 = 45-50 deg
pos #3 = 70 deg
pos #4 = 90 deg
pos #5 = factory stock deg

I will be testing the above to make sure what we end up with, may change the scale some do not know yet.

The finished product will be potted of course & blah blah blah, as we will both need one of these units for our respective cars etc.

Anyway that is my story and I am sticking to it. :jester:

93Cobra#2771
10-24-2005, 09:52 AM
You know, stangPlus2birds on the corral (Joe) mentioned in one of his posts that the ACT sensors aren't all that accurate - they don't show temp changes quick enough. Of course, he was his usual "my way or the highway" self when talking about it.

FWIW.

Course that doesn't matter when you control what the EEC sees with your switch. Just don't confuse it and the tweecer switch... :banana:

Dale McPeters
10-24-2005, 10:46 AM
You know, stangPlus2birds on the corral (Joe) mentioned in one of his posts that the ACT sensors aren't all that accurate - they don't show temp changes quick enough. Of course, he was his usual "my way or the highway" self when talking about it.

FWIW.

Yeah he can be a - not very likeable person - sometimes. Although he does have a point, one of the reasons for the switch.


Course that doesn't matter when you control what the EEC sees with your switch. Just don't confuse it and the tweecer switch... :banana:

Yep should not matter how fast the ACT/ECT sensors are if they are controlled elsewhere for what the EEC actually sees. Of course this would not be used in a daily driven car..... :jester:

That would not be good getting the switches confused. It might actaully end in a ... :bomb:

gt90stang
10-26-2005, 02:03 PM
Hi all,

This is getting old....now I don't get any codes with the resistor fix, but I know at times the ACT is actually getting close to 300*F. This morning on my way to work it had just rained so was granny driving. Decelerated and went around a corner and eased into the throttle and it missed and sputtered real bad (not like before when it threw a code and added more timing) but just wouldn't improve and died with steady throttle. So I'm pretty sure the ACTs where pretty high, wasn't datalogging and don't have the WB02 hooked up, so here is the question:

Do I need to add more fuel at higher temps in FN1307 or what to do to fix this?

Thanks, Don

Cougar5.0
10-26-2005, 02:47 PM
Hi all,

This is getting old....now I don't get any codes with the resistor fix, but I know at times the ACT is actually getting close to 300*F. This morning on my way to work it had just rained so was granny driving. Decelerated and went around a corner and eased into the throttle and it missed and sputtered real bad (not like before when it threw a code and added more timing) but just wouldn't improve and died with steady throttle. So I'm pretty sure the ACTs where pretty high, wasn't datalogging and don't have the WB02 hooked up, so here is the question:

Do I need to add more fuel at higher temps in FN1307 or what to do to fix this?

Thanks, Don

I'm wondering why you are seeing such high ACT temps. I have a 2L KB pullied for about 9 psi and I do see the ACT rise to maybe 225F max on decel/tip in on a 90 degree day. I actually had the bright idea to replace my ACT with a new unit from the part's store. It failed open circuit in about a week and I witnessed the default behavior. It follows the ECT up to a point and then just sticks there like yours (A9L). Fortunately the check engine light kept coming on as the ACT failed so I knew something strange was going on. I put the 18 year old OE back in and it's worked fine since. I have never seen a temperature above 225F. But when my ACT failed I never had an issue with the car not running correctly - I simply was annoyed by the "check engine" light. Is your bypass valve operating properly? Where is your intake air being drawn from? MAF operating properly? Electrical connections all checked and secure? Somethings up, but I'm not sure it's entirely ACT related. I realize that these are obvious questions that I'm sure you've already checked into - maybe you need to hook up the WB02 and log the event again...

Italian LX
10-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Are you sure it's not a faulty connection; maybe on the TwEECer to the CPU? :shrug:

gt90stang
10-26-2005, 06:19 PM
Hi all,

Yes I've check everything. Mine is a 2.2L and on decel it beats the heck out of the air and on tip-in the ACT shoots up over 256*F. Mine is pullied for 10# and delivers 8# into my built 306. I've used several ACT sensors and get the same results. I've datalogged with the bypass hooked up and bypassed and the ultimate temp remains the same, except for it runs cooler most of the time with the bypass connected and working. Under WOT or mid throttle the temps are cooler. Maybe I have too big a charger for the boost I running, don't know. I'm stuck with 91 Octane so have adjusted everything accordingly. I'm using the stock air box with a K&N, stock plumbing with a C&L 76mm MAF using a green tube. AFRs are spot on as demanded and it idles and runs great except occassionally this decel and tip-in issue. Once this is fixed I'm done tuning this beast. BTW on a cool day this thing will smoke my 275/40R17 DRs through 1st, 2nd then finally settle down in third if I get on the throttle a little too hard.

Don

QWKSNKE
10-26-2005, 06:26 PM
Don, do you have any under the hood pics you could post?

Since i do not know where you are located at, what are the outside temps when driving the car and you see these high ACT temps?

Also where is your ACT sensor located?

Dale McPeters
10-26-2005, 08:46 PM
Don,

I do not remember what all you have done to the tune so I will
throw this out to you and you can take it with a grain of salt.
Have you looked at the ISC Adder vs ACT/ECT function in the higher ACT/ECT temp ranges?

Also what about the EGR multiplier under Scalars? If it is still hooked up
and in good working order. Is this set at "1" or is it lower like 0.8xxxx?

Also what version of Caledit are you using? Did you mix anything in the new software with Caledit 1.20b3?

gt90stang
10-26-2005, 09:08 PM
Thanks everyone for posting. I measured the high ACT temps when the ambient was 75-80*F. ACT sensor is in the stock #5 input port.

I noticed something wierd tonight on the way home. It was raining so traffic was slow and when I would lug between 1500-2000 RPM at light throttle tip-in it wanted to chug and miss, guess I don't drive like this much! Anyway, I'm going to try and pull a few degrees out of you timing table from lower loads to see if this helps. I think this may be what is going on so time will tell.

Pics are on my website but they aren't up to date.

http://www.geocities.com/dbennettya/Mustang_PCM/

Dale, EGR multiplier is 1 54* and above. I don't see what the ISC adder is going to affect this, but it is pretty much stock except I took out the speed increase for higher ECTs cause I have an electric fan now.

Don

Cougar5.0
10-26-2005, 11:43 PM
I had an issue after I got my tune seemingly perfect - the tip in air/fuel was leaning out instead of richening which caused a stumble and miss maybe similar to what you describe. Another KB person had this same issue if I remember correctly. I ended up changing the global accel pump multiplier and Accel Enrichment Fuel table so that a slower TP rate would add more fuel. This kinda creeped in after I adjusted the load scaling. The KB causes a wide range in load at very low RPM's - something I've found a bit tricky to get just right. Maybe something to look into?

gt90stang
10-27-2005, 12:10 PM
Cougar5.0,

Yeah I already have worked on that part, however some of this may be due to the manifold filling routine. I think your right about the lower RPM load stuff. I removed 2* timing from my 3 lower loads out to 2000 RPM in the timing tables and so far it looks promising with much better off idle response and low RPM lugging....looks like I'm making progress. Time will tell. :banana:

Update: Removing timing at lower loads is fixing the issue. Almost there! :chug:

Don

Dale McPeters
10-27-2005, 07:55 PM
Don,

Have you adjusted any of these -

fuel equilib time constant
fuel equilib intake surface area

And another - egr base rate altitude etc. etc.

gt90stang
10-27-2005, 11:29 PM
Dale,

Nope, those aren't available on A9P with Tweecer.

Don

Dale McPeters
10-28-2005, 07:23 AM
Don,

I am going to be out of pocket for a while have a few things to
take care of......
Drop Clint G. a pm/email as he should have these available in
the A9P through PCMX he maybe able to help out with
other things also.
I do not remember the exact function for the intake items other than it was fuel suspension etc. related? I am working on some other things at the moment and my "very small brain" is fried, but Clint should be able to explain etc..

gt90stang
10-29-2005, 11:28 AM
Dale,

Thanks, but I'm going to tune it the best I can with the Tweecer and then maybe that'll be good enough. If not then I'll pull out the big guns!

Don

86GT
10-29-2005, 08:52 PM
The PCMX file that I have does have the Equilb tables. Its up to you Don. I can give you the address or modify a tune for you.

gt90stang
10-29-2005, 09:05 PM
Clint,

Thanks, I don't have a clue what we'd have to change. :dunno:

Anyways, car is down for a few days. Just got a Ron Davis 18 fpi radiator and am adapting my Mark VIII fan and Canton recovery tank. Looks like I'll have to shorten the Canton 1" to get it to fit, bummer.

Don

86GT
10-29-2005, 10:52 PM
Customization is the key to all fixes. LOL Were you having cooling problems or is this one of those look good items?

I just added the Boostmaster Powerpipe and 90mm LMAF. It was also not as straight forward as I thought it was going to be. The powerpipe is a 4" monster which required the drimmial tool to come out of storage. I then had to buy a different K&N filter because the filter needed to clear the front fascia support bracket. The wiring was also different between the 6pin LMAF and four pin MAF. SHOnut performance had that connector adapter which made the connection a plug and play.

My 73mm C&L and 3” pluming was way too restrictive. I was seeing around 1220kg/hr at 5230 RPM with the C&L and now I am seeing 1465 at the same RPM. It's a nice jump, but the MAF is now at 4.7 volts instead of 4.2. If I wind it up to 6k I am sure that I might peg this MAF.

Horsepower went from 389 to 441 according to the EA. I thought this was un believable too, but the pucker factor sure confirmed it.

gt90stang
10-30-2005, 09:31 PM
Clint,

With the FMS-8005-C radiator it would only hold the stat temp up to 90*F with the AC on then it would climb but not run away. The FMS radiator only has 14 fins per inch, my new one has 18 fins per inch so should provide about 25% better cooling. Not a bling bling thing at all.

Anyway it is in and all I have to do is get it burped.

Don

86GT
10-30-2005, 10:09 PM
I just checked the Ron Davis site out, nice radiators. I had one of the FMS units sent to me but when I put water in it, it was leaking out just as fast as I was puting the water in. It had a hole in one of the tubes. I also did not like the crimped on plastic tanks.

I went with the Summit Racing version. It looks very similar to the Ron Davis, just not near the quality.

gt90stang
11-01-2005, 01:57 PM
Clint,

I'm running about 1530 Kg/hr with a 70mm TB, 76mm C&L and stock inlet piping and airbox with a K&N panel filter. According to Lee at C&L the stock plumbing will flow 850 CFM or about 1717 Kg/hr.

Please educate me on the Equilb tables, maybe start a new thread.

Thanks, Don

86GT
11-01-2005, 03:12 PM
True the stock intake track will allow those flow number but under N/A or with some boost. Either way less restriction and less bends somehow allowed better flow numbers for me. I did not change the tubing from the S/C to the TB, just the S/C inlet side. I am almost positive that it was the 73mm MAF and the sharp bends.

What RPM are you at when you see 1530? That is some good flow numbers. I will start a new thread on the Equilb stuff later when I get home.

gt90stang
11-01-2005, 03:31 PM
Clint,

Sounds good.

From a log I have handy:

1st gear 1525 Kg/hr @ 5776 RPM and WB02 11.9:1
2nd gear 1479 Kg/hr @ 5376 RPM and WB02 12.1:1

:chug:

Don