Machine Shop do's and Don'ts

[One_live95]

Well i need to have the machine work done to the block now...the shop that said they were gonna do it, never seemed to have gotten to it so i picked it up form there today(taking it somewhere else)



what are the do's and don'ts, what helps longevity and power, and what is just a waste of time and money......Mention anything, this will be the first motor i will have put together, I did buy a couple books from books a million so i am trying to read up on all the little tips/tricks.......



Also, does anyone know of a good machine shop around dothan i can get to do the work without having to worry about it...


thanks for imput.....

jason

[QWKSNKE]

don't know of one in Dothan but we have an excellent one here that KB and I use (and Italian within the next 6 months)

What is your goal for the engine? displacement, power, etc

[One_live95]

i want to put down 325 hp to the ground in my car.... a fun street car... reliable...i can put quite a bit of mileage on...

should be a 306 c.i. motor..... planning on running arp fitted stock rods, hyper pistons around 10:1, still saving for the afr's <---im poor, and a custom cam from somewhere......Edelbrock performer U/ with ported lower.... I think it is doable.....

Where exactly do you live Lee, if perspective to Montgomery...

jason

[Wickd GT]

Come on Jason! You do not know about Jonny Pilcher here in Enterprise? 347-3611, best machine shop around this whole area, this is the Machine Shop I get my work done. Give them a call and tell them I sent you:


Edgar

[Craig K.]

Here is what I would say you should do.

Have the block deck, bored and honed, when the hone the block make sure they use a honing plate, this is bolted to the top of the bolt to simulated a cylinder head, the cylinders will slightly distort when the head is bolted on so you want that when they bored it.
Also have the crank journals bored (to make them round again). Make sure you have ARP bolts/studs on hand for the machine shop to use during this.

Grinned down the break mark on the rods (the casting flange) so it is smooth, this prevents stress raises, then have the rods shoot-penned.
Fit the rods with the ARP bolts, then have the big end and small end sized (honed)

Get forged pistons, not hyper junk, you never know what you may do down the road.

Get file fitted rings, have the machine shop do this.

Have all the rotating parts balanced to within the amount you can afford, then have the crank balanced. This will be done with bob wieghts to simulate the wieght of the rods, bearings, pistons and rings, have this done with the balancer and flywheel you plan on using.

Have the machine shop check the all of the crank clearances (crank to mains and rods) before you pick up the parts, this will prevent the use of plasti-gage, and make sure the clearance are correct.

Also my preference I would use Clevite 77 bearings, a true double roller timing chain, a good oil pump, if you ever plan on a tubo/kompressor, get a high volume pump (stay stock pressure), and an ARP oil pump shaft.

Thats all I can think of for now, you may also want to check prices on a creat short block, as it may be cheaper in the long run.

[1Quik85GT]

Craig K,

You about sumed it up, I was thinking of what else to do..lol....

[QWKSNKE]

I agree with Craig except for the high volume oil pump.

[coupe]

You'll have alot of money tied up in shot-peening, line honing, balance, etc. I'd go for a shortblock. Will be done for under $2k. Then build your other engine slowly or freshen it up and sell it. :shrug:

[QWKSNKE]

You'll have alot of money tied up in shot-peening, line honing, balance, etc. I'd go for a shortblock. Will be done for under $2k. Then build your other engine slowly or freshen it up and sell it. :shrug:

how much is a shortblock. I only had around $1000-1100 in machine fees. Boring, balanced to damn near 0g, blueprint, etc

[coupe]

Some as low as around $1400-$1500 for 302/306. They have nicer rods, pistons, usually new stock crank or cast equivalent and less downtime for the swap... If it were a good deal like you, and a trustworth shop, then I'd swing it. A good reputation and proven product durability are things to look for. Machine shops get their business from word-of-mouth and recommendations usually.

[joker]

A dss 306 short block is only 1500 with forged rods and pistons

[NightHawk756]

I agree with Craig except for the high volume oil pump.

:werd:

[QWKSNKE]

Some as low as around $1400-$1500 for 302/306. They have nicer rods, pistons, usually new stock crank or cast equivalent and less downtime for the swap... If it were a good deal like you, and a trustworth shop, then I'd swing it. A good reputation and proven product durability are things to look for. Machine shops get their business from word-of-mouth and recommendations usually.

actually thinking back about it now....

My complete machine shop bill was $1800. This included the canton steel girdle and matching 7 qt pan (roughly $400), valve train girdle ($150), all bearings, all machining I mentioned earlier including polishing the crank and chamfering the oil holes, checking and decking the heads, ARP hardware for the girdle, and a few other things that I cannot remember.

So my actual machine work was less than I quoted earlier

[One_live95]

Here is what I would say you should do.

Have the block deck, bored and honed, when the hone the block make sure they use a honing plate, this is bolted to the top of the bolt to simulated a cylinder head, the cylinders will slightly distort when the head is bolted on so you want that when they bored it.
Also have the crank journals bored (to make them round again). Make sure you have ARP bolts/studs on hand for the machine shop to use during this.

Grinned down the break mark on the rods (the casting flange) so it is smooth, this prevents stress raises, then have the rods shoot-penned.
Fit the rods with the ARP bolts, then have the big end and small end sized (honed)

Get forged pistons, not hyper junk, you never know what you may do down the road.

Get file fitted rings, have the machine shop do this.

Have all the rotating parts balanced to within the amount you can afford, then have the crank balanced. This will be done with bob wieghts to simulate the wieght of the rods, bearings, pistons and rings, have this done with the balancer and flywheel you plan on using.

Have the machine shop check the all of the crank clearances (crank to mains and rods) before you pick up the parts, this will prevent the use of plasti-gage, and make sure the clearance are correct.

Also my preference I would use Clevite 77 bearings, a true double roller timing chain, a good oil pump, if you ever plan on a tubo/kompressor, get a high volume pump (stay stock pressure), and an ARP oil pump shaft.

Thats all I can think of for now, you may also want to check prices on a creat short block, as it may be cheaper in the long run.



very in depth and thorough answer thanks:metal: didn't really know that it would still cost around a grand with all the parts in hand though....I may rethink the shortblock thing.....?? I am gonna make some calls tomm.

Lee, i have heard the high volume oil pumps take away from power, basically being parasitic, and that a good stock volum pump works fine with an upgraded shaft... why do you not recommend high volume

Edgar, no i didn't really know it was there... i think i have heard of it before, but never really knew much.....thanks


jason

[slvrbullit]

My 331 rotating assembly from DSS was 1k, then about 400 in machine costs. A complete short block from DSS in 331/347 wis under 2k.

[slvrbullit]

Lee, i have heard the high volume oil pumps take away from power, basically being parasitic, and that a good stock volum pump works fine with an upgraded shaft... why do you not recommend high volume




jason

A high volume pump can suck the pan to low of oil at higher RPM's causing bearing failure.

[QWKSNKE]

A high volume pump can suck the pan to low of oil at higher RPM's causing bearing failure.


:yup: I definitely would not run one with the stock 5 qt pan.

I just don't feel its necessary to run a high volume pump in a street/strip car

[Craig K.]

:yup: I definitely would not run one with the stock 5 qt pan.

I just don't feel its necessary to run a high volume pump in a street/strip car

I would tend to agree with you guys on this, I am kinda of use to the racing which I do. With a street/strip car the reg. volume would do fine.

My car has about a 10 quart oil system, so that is why I am use to doing the high volume pumps.

[One_live95]

My 331 rotating assembly from DSS was 1k, then about 400 in machine costs. A complete short block from DSS in 331/347 wis under 2k.

how come your machine shop costs were only around 400$ when they are projecting mine to be around 1k if i do what they mentioned, what did you skip, or did you skip anything, I really didn't want to pay that much for machine work etc...... I was hoping for less than 500$ in machine work. please elaborate tommy.....




Lee and Tommy, that makes a lot of sense seeing as how there is only five quarts of oil in a stock pan.....Thanks for all the info so far guys....


jason

[QWKSNKE]

how come your machine shop costs were only around 400$ when they are projecting mine to be around 1k if i do what they mentioned, what did you skip, or did you skip anything, I really didn't want to pay that much for machine work etc...... I was hoping for less than 500$ in machine work. please elaborate tommy.....




he did his cylinder boring and balancing with a dremel and bathroom scales :D

[One_live95]

he did his cylinder boring and balancing with a dremel and bathroom scales :D


lmao :lol:


jason

[NightHawk756]

A high volume pump can suck the pan to low of oil at higher RPM's causing bearing failure.

Yeah, what he said. ;)

[Shankin]

We use proline race engines for all of our stock rebuilds to 2000hp outlaw motors. Give them a call if you need anything 770 516 0745.

[One_live95]

i will at least check with them......



are there any negatives to clearancing your own block if you want to go with a stroker kit...? I found a stroker kit for a 347 from a place in Muscle mustangs for 775$.... for that kind of price, i would love to have the extra cubic inches.....


jason

[CrimsonGT]

We use proline race engines for all of our stock rebuilds to 2000hp outlaw motors. Give them a call if you need anything 770 516 0745.
where is that located in GA