maf transfer question for dale/qwksnake

[sinistercoupe]

since you guys seem pretty knowledgable on the tweecer i'll ask you guys this. I don't have a flowsheet for my current meter (pro-m 75mm bullet blowthru caled for 50s). I looked in the caledit files and they have a pro-m50 TF in there (i assume for drawthru though) but it looks real weird. It only goes to 1.5 volts. All the other functions even for the 60 and 62 pro-m go to 5 volts.

just curious if there was a real big difference in the TF for blowthru compared to drawthru for the same style meter? I have my old flowsheet for my blowthru 42# bullet and it looks very similar to the numbers in the pro-m42 TF and Incon 42 files.

Also i think i raced Qwksnake years ago at FFW in montgomery true street. I had my white lx hatchback at the time. 93 teal cobra with qwksnake on the tag. i think my car was running very low 12s then...like 12.1 ish.

[QWKSNKE]

since you guys seem pretty knowledgable on the tweecer i'll ask you guys this. I don't have a flowsheet for my current meter (pro-m 75mm bullet blowthru caled for 50s). I looked in the caledit files and they have a pro-m50 TF in there (i assume for drawthru though) but it looks real weird. It only goes to 1.5 volts. All the other functions even for the 60 and 62 pro-m go to 5 volts.

The file is screwed up more than likely. I don't really trust the MAF files that are programmed in the Tweecer. The voltage/flow points should be a good bit different between a draw through meter and a blow through. (blow through meter see a higher velocity of air)


Also i think i raced Qwksnake years ago at FFW in montgomery true street. I had my white lx hatchback at the time. 93 teal cobra with qwksnake on the tag. i think my car was running very low 12s then...like 12.1 ish.

That was me and that was probably on 2002. I don't think I had that tag in 2001 when I ran at the Montgomery FFW.

Where are you from?

[sinistercoupe]

The file is screwed up more than likely. I don't really trust the MAF files that are programmed in the Tweecer. The voltage/flow points should be a good bit different between a draw through meter and a blow through. (blow through meter see a higher velocity of air)



That was me and that was probably on 2002. I don't think I had that tag in 2001 when I ran at the Montgomery FFW.

Where are you from?

i live in atlanta. If i don't have a flowsheet for my meter should i just leave the transfer stock then and try to tune it with the wot fuel multiplier? should i mess with the injector slopes without a new transfer loaded in?

[QWKSNKE]

ehh. I don't think I would leave the stock transfer in.

Give us more info on your combo. Also are you running a R/T or a base tweecer

[sinistercoupe]

ehh. I don't think I would leave the stock transfer in.

Give us more info on your combo. Also are you running a R/T or a base tweecer


i just have a base since i got it for 200 bucks used and i have a plx m300 wb on the car now to monitor a/f ratio.

basic setup is

87 notch 5 speed
351w w ported TFS tw heads,ported edel perf rpm,f303,1.6RR
75mm tb (made 339 rwhp/376tq) n/a

fuel system is 360 lph kinsler external pump,-8 feed,-6 return,aeromotive rails,
a1000 boost referenced regulator,50lb holley injectors

turbo kit is a B&G headers,3 inch downpipe,T-76 turbonetics q-trim dual ball bearing turbo,24x12x3 air to air intercooler,tial 38mm gate,greddy profec b EBC

running the pro-m bullet blowthru calibrated for 50s. This is mounted after the IC outlet.

[QWKSNKE]

I would seriously entertain the thought of changing out the Pro-M 75 and go to at least an Pro-m 80 or a univer.

At the very least, send the 75 back for a flow test so that you could get a data sheet.
Getting your tune dialed in without having an R/T is going to be a nightmare with an unknown MAF transfer curve

[93Cobra#2771]

Getting your tune dialed in without having an R/T is going to be a nightmare with an unknown MAF transfer curve
:werd:

[Dale McPeters]

I would seriously entertain the thought of changing out the Pro-M 75 and go to at least an Pro-m 80 or a univer.

At the very least, send the 75 back for a flow test so that you could get a data sheet.
Getting your tune dialed in without having an R/T is going to be a nightmare with an unknown MAF transfer curve

Or one of the C&L tuner maf's. They seem to work well in blowthru app's on the EEC-IV's.
Lee is correct it will be very time consuming getting the meter dialed in without the ability to datalog. You really need to see what the lambse1, maf voltage etc. is doing base on rpm, AFR etc.. If you have access to a breakout box you can use it and a digital volt meter and eyeball maf voltage.
You at least have to know what the maf voltage is at certain rpm's etc. so that you know where to adjust the maf transfer curve....
You really can not guess at this.

:werd:
:lol:
By the way Richard where are the pictures of those new tires?

[93Cobra#2771]

Planning on driving it to work tomorrow and snapping a few then. :D

[Dale McPeters]

Planning on driving it to work tomorrow and snapping a few then. :D

'bout time....:jester:

[Dale McPeters]

One other thing that I forgot to mention is that you can buy as dataq for around $25 and use it to datalog to a laptop. After you splice into the wiring of course.

Works a lot better than just a breakout box with no mod's.

[sinistercoupe]

I would seriously entertain the thought of changing out the Pro-M 75 and go to at least an Pro-m 80 or a univer.

At the very least, send the 75 back for a flow test so that you could get a data sheet.
Getting your tune dialed in without having an R/T is going to be a nightmare with an unknown MAF transfer curve

i had a 3.5 inch univer before and the car wouldn't even run with it. I really don't want one of those as they are hit or miss. I don't think the 80 will work in blow through though. I know the R/t is better but if i can datalog the air/fuel ratio wouldn't that be just as good.

[QWKSNKE]

i had a 3.5 inch univer before and the car wouldn't even run with it. I really don't want one of those as they are hit or miss. I don't think the 80 will work in blow through though. I know the R/t is better but if i can datalog the air/fuel ratio wouldn't that be just as good.

no because it is really helpful to datalog fuel trims so that you can see close your transfer curve is (when it is close to being established)

I'll be honest dude, the base tweecer is worthless UNLESS you are able to borrow an r/t from someone to tune your car with and then transfer the to your base tweecer (essentially you are using it as a 'chip' that way). Especially in a combination like what you have.

[Dale McPeters]

i had a 3.5 inch univer before and the car wouldn't even run with it.

Then the calibration was not correct.


I really don't want one of those as they are hit or miss. I don't think the 80 will work in blow through though.

The univers or ATI Pro tubes work just fine "IF" the calibration is done correctly. The 80mm will work but it will be limited in the amount of air flow that it can meter. And with the combination that you have you "NEED" a univer, ATI Pro tube or the new C&L tuner maf for the blowthru application and displacement that you are running.


I know the R/t is better but if i can datalog the air/fuel ratio wouldn't that be just as good.

You need to be able to datalog no matter what you use to do it. Wether it be a TwEECer-RT, Dataq, SnEEC-IV, Breakout Box or what ever you need to be able to datalog. If you can not see what the EEC is doing in reference to the changes that you make you are in the dark.........;)

Since you seem to be limited in the money dept. (by the sound of it anyway). If I were you I would at least buy a dataq ( http://www.dataq.com/194.htm ) and use their software & wire in the item like TPS, MAF, WB etc. that you need to see to tune with this is better than nothing.....

Listen to what Lee is saying.........:jester:

[sinistercoupe]

Then the calibration was not correct.

thats possible i guess. It ran on the guys car that i bought it from just fine.



The univers or ATI Pro tubes work just fine "IF" the calibration is done correctly. The 80mm will work but it will be limited in the amount of air flow that it can meter. And with the combination that you have you "NEED" a univer, ATI Pro tube or the new C&L tuner maf for the blowthru application and displacement that you are running.



You need to be able to datalog no matter what you use to do it. Wether it be a TwEECer-RT, Dataq, SnEEC-IV, Breakout Box or what ever you need to be able to datalog. If you can not see what the EEC is doing in reference to the changes that you make you are in the dark.........;)

Since you seem to be limited in the money dept. (by the sound of it anyway). If I were you I would at least buy a dataq ( http://www.dataq.com/194.htm ) and use their software & wire in the item like TPS, MAF, WB etc. that you need to see to tune with this is better than nothing.....

Listen to what Lee is saying.........:jester:

Its not really a money thing and i'll probably get it upgraded to the RT when i get the chance. I'll look into the dataq though. thanks

[Dale McPeters]

Its not really a money thing and i'll probably get it upgraded to the RT when i get the chance. I'll look into the dataq though. thanks

You are welcome.

[QWKSNKE]

Listen to what Lee is saying.........:jester:

:D

Seriously, if you were running a mild n/a 302 based combo (or nitrous'd) and had driveability issues then you could make guestimate changes based off your wideband on a base tweecer (idle, WOT timing, minor MAF transfer curves, etc)

-BUT-

with the significantly larger displacement, cam, good flowing heads, larger injectors, and turbo, you really need deep datalog capabilities with the wideband to make your combo efficient. Trust me, Dale had me diving off in tables I knew nothing about and/or realized the effect they played on driveability. We would not have been able to do this without several datalogging parameters in the R/T.

Load scaling will be your friend. Trust me!

[QWKSNKE]

Oh yeah. I haven't really heard of problems with the univers specifically but all aftermarket meters are hit or miss. That's we have tuneable software/hardware available to us