To carb or not to carb ...

[1sicklx]

Somthing I've been giving a lote of thought to ... if I do build a stroker motor I'd save myself alot of money by running a carb'd setup seeing that I don't have a lot of the parts necessary for mass air EFI.

The case for the carb as I see it .. cheap, clean, simple ..

Case against EFI .. I would need upgraded injectors and MAF, and I would have to find a mass air eec, ect ...

The way it seems to me is I'd be saving myself a lot of money by running a carb, but I'd be sacrificing some of the benefits that mass air EFI could provide.

Now ... let's see some feedback.

[QWKSNKE]

I am a carb hater, so I would be biased :D

[EZ SPEED]

I wouldnt do a carb on anything that I planned on driving daily, but for a toy....carbs are okay.

[1sicklx]

Well, it wouldn't be a daily driver (already have a car for that) but that's not saying I wouldn't want it to be fairly reliable ... I mean what fun is a car that you can't drive.

What I'm looking at if I go EFI... I have the wiring harness for a non-mass air setup and stock rails.

I would have to upgrade to mass air and buy the following ...

75-80 mm MAF
24-30 lb Injectors
70-75 mm TB
Mass Air EEC
AFPR
255+ lph fuel pump
Intake .. Systemax or TFS R

That's a lot of money .... :(

[Wickd GT]

You all can kiss my ass, mine is carb and properly tuned you can drive it anywhere, I know I do now that the carb is tuned right, it is fun when you open them 4 barrels and smoke the tire about 50ft, he,he, LOL



Edgar

[1sicklx]

You all can kiss my ass, mine is carb and properly tuned you can drive it anywhere, I know I do now that the carb is tuned right, it is fun when you open them 4 barrels and smoke the tire about 50ft, he,he, LOL

Edgar

What would you do if you had to start from scratch .. carb or EFI?

[Craig K.]

There is nothing wrong with running a carb, however if you ever planned on supercharging or turbo, the EFI is more tunable.

As far as carbs not being reliable, I drove my car more than 30k miles ran mid 12's and never even tuned it (and got 22+ mpg on the road with 4.10 gears).

[1sicklx]

the only power adder that would ever see the engine is perhaps nitrous at some point in the future.

[onebad12]

I just went from EFI to carb becouse I thought it would be cheaper, I was wrong. After you buy a good carb and ignition fuel pump intake and plumbing it I spent alota money. So carb is not as cheap as some think. You could convert cheaper then I did, but buying cheaper stuff will hurt in the long run.

[1sicklx]

You have to bare in mind that I'm not converting from one to the other, I'm starting from scratch. Thanks for sharing. :chug:

[QWKSNKE]

I just went from EFI to carb becouse I thought it would be cheaper, I was wrong. After you buy a good carb and ignition fuel pump intake and plumbing it I spent alota money. So carb is not as cheap as some think. You could convert cheaper then I did, but buying cheaper stuff will hurt in the long run.

exactly. a good carb and intake is going to be well over $500 if buying new. You will have to get a mechanical pump and depending on whether it is a late model car or not, you will have to buy a pickup to put in the tank which is also pricey depending on what you buy

[QWKSNKE]

You all can kiss my ass, mine is carb and properly tuned you can drive it anywhere, I know I do now that the carb is tuned right, it is fun when you open them 4 barrels and smoke the tire about 50ft, he,he, LOL



Edgar

:kissmyass :D

At least I know you read other parts of the forum now :jester:

[1sicklx]

exactly. a good carb and intake is going to be well over $500 if buying new. You will have to get a mechanical pump and depending on whether it is a late model car or not, you will have to buy a pickup to put in the tank which is also pricey depending on what you buy

That's still a lot cheaper than all of the EFI components. :shrug:

[qkjuicedpony]

used efi parts are your friend.buy them and use them.ive had all of them.l

[uvbnhad]

You know my opinion. I think of the carb as like a VCR. Even though a lot of people still have them and use them, ultimately they are a dead technology. If you want precision tunability -and what you might equate with safety- the efi system is the way to go.

[1Quik85GT]

Go carb, its easier to tune, cheaper and make more HP... With EFI, hell you make a cam change you have to buy a chip, to get it tuned right..and that can be 200.00 or more. you can go carb easily for under 500.00....

[TheJeanyus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a carb on a "toy" car. You lose some part throttle efficiency, but that's not what toy cars are for. If I ever build a motor for my '79 Capri, it will most likely be a carbed setup.

[onebad12]

What all the EFI guys are forgetting is, if you have a heavily modified car it is very costly to properly tune the stock ECU. I had a 355 with TFS Hi Ports and big cam that was EFI and it was killing me and my bank account to try to tune it. They make software to somewhat tune it but very costly. Atleast with a carb you can tweak it with a screw driver. Dont get me wrong, there is no doubt EFI is better for a daily driver but a carb for a toy.

[Italian LX]

What all the EFI guys are forgetting is, if you have a heavily modified car it is very costly to properly tune the stock ECU. I had a 355 with TFS Hi Ports and big cam that was EFI and it was killing me and my bank account to try to tune it. They make software to somewhat tune it but very costly. Atleast with a carb you can tweak it with a screw driver. Dont get me wrong, there is no doubt EFI is better for a daily driver but a carb for a toy.
I feel that it's a lot easier to tune with a laptop than with a screwdriver. :P

[1sicklx]

I feel that it's a lot easier to tune with a laptop than with a screwdriver. :P

True .. but again .. that laptop is a lot more expensive than the screwdriver isn't it? :d

My thought is .. if you have fuel, air, and a spark, it'll run. So what are the real benefits in buying all of the EFI parts and tools needed to tune it when I can have it at a fraction of the cost?

I don't mean to seem pig-headed but what benefit am I really going to gain by going EFI other than spending considerably more money on parts and software to tune it?

This like most things in life comes down to the old "bang for the buck" theory and I'm just looking for the metaphorical "bang" that's going to justify my bucks.

[QWKSNKE]

This is purely my opinion...

It seems that in a daily driver car, EFI offers way more economy and driveability. Also a more "fun to drive" factor because throttle response is a lot better.

I am not going to get into the pissing contest of which is faster or better but both will be pricey when getting quality parts. Ask these guys who run GOOD carbs how much they cost (we are not talking a Holley 600 from Autozone). I think you will be surprised. You can easily sink $1000 in a carb and intake

Its lot easier to get good functioning used parts that a good used carb.

I understand you are on a budget so only you can choose what is best for you. Also, if you choose to go EFI, Brian and I have some stock E7 EFI intakes we can give you.

[qkjuicedpony]

either way will work.the efi is more efficient and as for tuning issues with a ford efi setup.you can tune it with just fuel pressure adjustments and timing and get it perfect.i have built both a good efi setup and a good carb setup and both were very costly.so choose wisely but know this as a major factor



if you carb the car and decide to sell it in the future you will not get hardly half of the money you invested in it.....ask me how i know

[1sicklx]

Also, if you choose to go EFI, Brian and I have some stock E7 EFI intakes we can give you.

Thanks for the offer and I will keep that in mind.:chug:

[QWKSNKE]

might even have a stock t/b too. Can't remember if the intakes we have have any on them

[QWKSNKE]

if you carb the car and decide to sell it in the future you will not get hardly half of the money you invested in it.....ask me how i know


this is very true.

[qkjuicedpony]

might even have a stock t/b too. Can't remember if the intakes we have have any on them


if they dont have it i do...got stock pumps,injectors and such that you can have.

[Blown 5.0]

Im not here to sway you are anybody else. But it gripes my A** when i hear CARBS ARE CHEAPER. Although true you can get a 300 dollar out of the box carb, IT WILL NOT RUN ITS BEST IN A PERFORMANCE APPLACTION. True it will start and run and run fair,But you will not be getting 100% performance.A true performance carb tuned PROPERLY through the entire fuel curve COST BIG BUCKS. And if you have the means to do this yourself, expect to spend many many hours getting it just rite. To me fuel injection is easier to tune at a modest cost. But i will always believe Carbs are faster.

[Wickd GT]

Lets see, I bought a Pro-System carb in 2002, cost me 700.00, it tooked me 4yrs to find the almost the right tune, still working on it.

So here it is:

Pro-System todays price 850.00

Vic Jr. 240.00
Super Vic 330.00 aprox.

That if you want quality parts, not el chipo parts.


Edgar

[1sicklx]

In comparison ....

Systemax Intake ...... $570
Ford 30lb Injectors ... $220
77mm MAF .............. $210
AFPR ...................... $60
ECU ....................... $100

:hmm:

[QWKSNKE]

In comparison ....

Systemax Intake ...... $570
Ford 30lb Injectors ... $220
77mm MAF .............. $210
AFPR ...................... $60
ECU ....................... $100

:hmm:


you can buy those parts used and save some money.

Its hard to buy a used carb to save money and it still be good

[Sendero]

Things a Carb cannot tune for automatically:

Weather
Driving Habits
Weather
Part Throttle Drivability
Weather
Load-based Spark Delivery
Weather
Spark Knock
Weather
Different Octane Fuels
Weather
WOT Fuel Delivery
and finally... Weather

Things an EFI system cannot automatically tune for:

The Apocalypse

[1Quik85GT]

I have a box stock Holley carb, seems to do find with my mid 10sec car. I tried a BG on my car and it actually slowed it down. It all boils down to what you want to do and your mechanical skills with carbs or EFI. I was raised up on working on carbs, so its fairly easy to me, and the last couple of years I have built some EFI engines.

[Craig K.]

I have a box stock Holley carb, seems to do find with my mid 10sec car. I tried a BG on my car and it actually slowed it down. It all boils down to what you want to do and your mechanical skills with carbs or EFI. I was raised up on working on carbs, so its fairly easy to me, and the last couple of years I have built some EFI engines.

thats a good point, for me too, i was always working with carbs when i was younger, i really missed out on the computer era by just a few years.

what are you use to working on, or do you want a new challenge?
if you have never worked on either, i would try the efi, as there are plenty of people here that can help you

[QWKSNKE]

thats a good point, for me too, i was always working with carbs when i was younger,

:werd:

[1sicklx]

what are you use to working on, or do you want a new challenge?
if you have never worked on either, i would try the efi, as there are plenty of people here that can help you

I have always worked on EFI, but I'm not shy of learning something new. Still kicking ideas around ..

[LeeH]

I like both, I have both and can somewhat tune both. I grew up with carbs and played with multiple carburated engines on the street for several years, I grew up playing with Clevelands and FEs. I had a 428CJ that bore a 6V aka 3X2 or 3 dueces for you older fellas, The intake and carbs came from a 62 406 Galaxy. I also played with some 427MR 2X4 and a 427HR 2X4 along with a few Weber/Delorto carbed small blocks. The carbed engines are only as tunable as you are knowledgable, We used to drill out the metering wells and drill/plug & redrill the air bleeds. A carb is a precision fuel/air metering device that works off of pressure differential above and below the throttle plates, I dont know of an easier or more simplified system. Once you get one tuned it is very reliable as long as you keep the incomming fuel and air clean, Dirt is a carbs worst enemy followed very closely by unregulated fuel pressure and a poor tuner. My line of thinking is anything that uses metering rods is a poor excuse for a carb therefore you know straight up I am a Holley guy. EFI is fun but is able to mask problems that a carb wont allow, EFI is also easier to set up for either a blower or turbo. A carb though can be just as easy to tune in a blow through application, There are some things that must be done but none are very labor intensive or require alot of brain power. The fuel pressure must stay at least 5-7 PSI above boost to avoid running the bowls dry, With a mechanical pump or a good fuel press. reg. its very easy to do. All pumps and regulators have atmospheric vent holes on the back side of the diaphrams, Install a fitting and plumb into a vacuum port on the intake then plug any extra vents in the pump or regulator. Being that a pressure differential is all that provides the scavenging of fuel from the bowls when you have boost the process does not change and the fuel delivery stays the same as if it was naturally aspirated.