Mass Air on 2.3's

[QWKSNKE]

What year did they start? Does anybody know? Any tuning support for those processors

[rtusnake]

Not sure when they started but the 87 88 turbo coupes are supposed to have the big vam that is the best and biggest one factory I believe. You probably already know that but thought I would put it out there.

[QWKSNKE]

Not sure when they started but the 87 88 turbo coupes are supposed to have the big vam that is the best and biggest one factory I believe. You probably already know that but thought I would put it out there.


All year SVO's had the big VAM as well. Just trying to research MAF conversion and tuning support

[Dale McPeters]

All year SVO's had the big VAM as well. Just trying to research MAF conversion and tuning support

Put an A9L on it and change the binary file to run a
4 cylinder engine. Then you can use any MAF you want
to..............:jester:

[QWKSNKE]

Put an A9L on it and change the binary file to run a
4 cylinder engine. Then you can use any MAF you want
to..............:jester:

I realize you are joking but is that feasable? :hmm:

[Dale McPeters]

I realize you are joking but is that feasable? :hmm:

I have been working on a binary file for
a couple of days now just for this purpose.
The TwEECer software does not have enough
info in it at the present time to accomplish this
task I do not think. I will check to see if the A10
version can be used if you want.
I am working on it with Paul's software and Moates
hardware.

I know quite a few people that are using the A9L on
a 6 cylinder.

I will hopefully know in about 8 weeks if this is going to work.
Still have to get the car up and running again.
There is a little 2.3L TB turbo coupe that needs to breath
a little better......:jester:

[coupe]

Was talking to an SVO guy the other day (runs an SDS on his car). He said someone offers a custom "burn" chip for the 2.3turbo computer and runs a regular mustang MAF meter. He didn't have details on drivability...might be worth a search on svoca.com.
I don't feel like re-registering there tho. :rolleyes:

[QWKSNKE]

SvoBrown here runs a MAF setup on his car but I am unsure of the details. I 'think' he using a J3 Moates chip on his SVO

[Dale McPeters]

You can do it with the newer F3 Moates chip but not the older style F1
chip if you are still running the stock ecm as the F1 seems to have problems
running the 4 cyl. turbo code or something.

At least from what I can tell at this time....

[QWKSNKE]

When I get ready, I'll just fly your ass here and get you to tune it then :D

[Dale McPeters]

When I get ready, I'll just fly your ass here and get you to tune it then :D

Check your email....:jester:

[QWKSNKE]

Sorry I missed your calls tonight. I'll call back tomorrow or Sunday after I get off work

[QWKSNKE]

Dale....

:slap:

That's for sending me an email like that. you know I am not smart enough to decipher binary addresses.

By the way my original EEC would be an EEC III (TE cal code). The car now has a EEC-IV LA2 in it.

[Dale McPeters]

Sorry I missed your calls tonight. I'll call back tomorrow or Sunday after I get off work

That is ok I was just calling to see which EEC you had in the car now.

Dale....

:slap:

That's for sending me an email like that. you know I am not smart enough to decipher binary addresses.

:lol:
I just thought you would like to see some of the
data addresses.........:jester:


By the way my original EEC would be an EEC III (TE cal code). The car now has a EEC-IV LA2 in it.

I have not messed with the EEC III TE cal code at all so I would be in the
dark on that one and of no use in helping with the code......:baby:

Pull the binary/ccf file from the LA2 and send it to me and let me take a look at it. I know I have some stuff on the LA3 but do not remember on the LA2....

[QWKSNKE]

give me a week or two

[fireguy50]

I've programed the A9L for 6 cylinders before with sucess.

[Dale McPeters]

I've programed the A9L for 6 cylinders before with sucess.

Ryan was this on one of the bronco's?
I remember when you were working on this........
I found some of my notes that I had kept from someone's
post about 3 or 4 years ago, do not remember who it was
now. That had either added a maf table to the turbo code
or reworked the VAF table to except MAF input.
I need to dig a little deeper into this.......

I think Steve Beem has worked with the 4 cyl turbo stuff
quite a bit. May have to drop him an email.

By the way Ryan expect an email from me after 6/1/06
about the wiring harness for the '65....;)

[fireguy50]

I've done it to a few Ford 4.9L I6's and few Chevy 4.6L V6

If you don't need OBD-II or trans control, the A9L is king for OEM computers

I'll talk to you in June

[Dale McPeters]

Lee here is a link to some of the old tuner23 list files.
I think that it was in one of the emails that I sent previously.

http://tuner23.rothfam.com/maillist.html

[93Cobra#2771]

I've got an easy answer to all this:



















V8 conversion. :jester:

[Dale McPeters]

I've got an easy answer to all this:

V8 conversion. :jester:

:rofl: :rofl:

That could work......:jester:

[QWKSNKE]

:shake:

[93Cobra#2771]

5.0 > 2.3

:jester:

[Italian LX]

5.0 > 2.3
6.9 >5.0

:D

[Dale McPeters]

:lol:

[SvoBrown]

I still like my little 2.3 and the MAF on it. Idles better than any other stock one that I know of. Using the motes J3 and a 80mm of a 96 cobra #55 injectors. Have the LA3 in it.
I have an extra chip if you would like to check it out.

[Dale McPeters]

I still like my little 2.3 and the MAF on it. Idles better than any other stock one that I know of. Using the motes J3 and a 80mm of a 96 cobra #55 injectors. Have the LA3 in it.
I have a extra chip if you would like to check it out.

Would you mind explaining what you did to be able to run the
MAF on the LA3? Steve dropped me an email and said it only
took a couple of wires and an IAT sensor is that correct?
Also what kind of changes did you make to the binary file?
If it is that simple I will just use my stock EEC and one of my Moates F3 chips
on my '86 turbo coupe. And not even fool with the A9L plan....

I ask all these questions as I know nothing about 2.3L's.........:jester:

[SvoBrown]

Send me your email and address. I will send you some of the stuff I know about it. I had another guy to do mine and send it to me as a kit.
I can tell you very little about the files and codes in it. I know just enough to really screw some stuff up.

Do you have the burner and stuff for the J3?

svobrown@hughes.net

[sailorbob]

It would be interesting to see the code changes, the VAF to MAF side is straight forward enough but it's all the little changes like range errors I'm curious about.

[Dale McPeters]

Send me your email and address. I will send you some of the stuff I know about it. I had another guy to do mine and send it to me as a kit.
I can tell you very little about the files and codes in it. I know just enough to really screw some stuff up.

Do you have the burner and stuff for the J3?

svobrown@hughes.net

You have mail...;)
Yes I have all the items required for burning reading
chips etc....

Thanks.

[SvoBrown]

You have mail...;)
Yes I have all the items required for burning reading
chips etc....

Thanks.


I got the chips in the mail to you. One chip is blank because of putting the file in the wrong place. Green chip with dead on it. The other one has 2 programs on it, (more fuel and timing) save that chip and try to burn the other one with anything to test.

[Dale McPeters]

I got the chips in the mail to you. One chip is blank because of putting the file in the wrong place. Green chip with dead on it. The other one has 2 programs on it, (more fuel and timing) save that chip and try to burn the other one with anything to test.

Lee Fulmer & I thank you!!!!
I will let you know when they
arrive and what I come up with...;)

Thanks again.

[QWKSNKE]

Dale, I will try and get the LA2 binary done this weekend

[Dale McPeters]

Dale, I will try and get the LA2 binary done this weekend

Good deal.

[QWKSNKE]

Did you get my email I sent you Sunday night Dale?

[Dale McPeters]

Did you get my email I sent you Sunday night Dale?

Yes sir but have not had a lot of time this
week between work, upgrading to 10,000rpm
drives & updating routers etc at the house.
I will try to take a brief look at the file tonight.

I am also waiting on Craig to get the Ostrich
back in stock so that I can get it and some
more F3 chips. I thought I had another one
laying around but all I had was a couple of
F1's. I talked to svobrown by email about it
last night. He only sent me the smaill chip
out of the F3 adapter and I can not read it
until I get the other items from Craig.

By the way give me a call sometime this
week if you get time.....:D

[QWKSNKE]

I'll do it.

by the way. pm me your shipping address :D

[Dale McPeters]

Pm is on the way.....what are you up to? :unsure:

[QWKSNKE]

;)

[Dale McPeters]

:nice:

[Dale McPeters]

Just a note to let you guys know that
Craig shipped me an F3 chip. It should
be here late this afternoon according
to UPS tracking. If so I will get the chips
read and back in the mail to svobrown
in a few days.

Unfortunately he said the Ostrich is not
going to be back in stock until the 2nd week
of July.......in his words ugh!!

[SvoBrown]

Super cool. Were you able to look at the datalog I sent? Need any more info just let me know. Happy to help.

[Dale McPeters]

I looked it over briefly but will look at it more
closely when I get the chip and read the binary
and compare it to a stock binary file. That way
I can kind of see what was changed and compare
it to your datalog & afr readings.

[Dale McPeters]

F3 got here this afternoon.
I will read the 2 chips that you sent
tomorrow after work, hope to get off
early, and see what we got....;)

[coupe]

Question on this MAF-conversion thing:
will the lightning MAF work okay? That would make it a definite budget swap.

[Dale McPeters]

Question on this MAF-conversion thing:
will the lightning MAF work okay? That would make it a definite budget swap.

It should will know more later....
Just got most of the chip data read
will know more after I have had time
to analyze it more.....

[sailorbob]

Dale, would you care to share the chip read? I wouldn't mind having a peek to see what's changed. I'm not too familiar with the LA3 but do know a little about it because I've used the code to help decipher my ecu.

[Dale McPeters]

If svobrown does not mind me sharing it
with you, I do not mind at all....
The more eyes that are looking at it the
more we will know when Lee & I get ready
to convert our cars.....:jester:

[sailorbob]

That's fair, here's waiting for the OK :)

[QWKSNKE]

If svobrown does not mind me sharing it
with you, I do not mind at all....
The more eyes that are looking at it the
more we will know when Lee & I get ready
to convert our cars.....:jester:


:D

[SvoBrown]

Give it to the world. Learn what you can and teach me.

[Dale McPeters]

Give it to the world. Learn what you can and teach me.

Will do and by the way you have email...;)

[Dale McPeters]

That's fair, here's waiting for the OK :)

You will need to pm me your email address as you
are not setup to recieve emails from list members.

[vristang]

If I can get look at the .bin file I would appreciate it.

In exchange I can offer up the resources I have found on the MAF conversion using an LA3. I plan on running a MAF with my 2.3 turbo conversion.

Are you guys using the updated LA3 strategy from STKR? It will make a difference on available settings in CalEdit.

http://binary.uta.edu/EEC/

I'll have to look for the other one.

jason

[vristang]

Found it.
I think you have to join the Yahoo tweecer forum for access though

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tweecer/files/Mod-BIN/2.3%20Ford%20Turbo/

I thought this was very well written and explained the conversion pretty well.

jason

[Dale McPeters]

If I can get look at the .bin file I would appreciate it.

jason

Email address?

[Dale McPeters]

sailorbob you have a pm & mail. ;)

[vristang]

Email address?

:doh:

jason_c_willard@yahoo.com

or pm

thanks

[Dale McPeters]

:doh:

jason_c_willard@yahoo.com

or pm

thanks

You have mail.

[vristang]

You have mail.

Recieved and thank you.

jason

[sailorbob]

sailorbob you have a pm & mail. ;)Thanks, I'll post anything I find that I think might be interesting.

[sailorbob]

Done a quick comparison between the working and 'dead' chips, they are identical except for changes to the Acceleration_Enrichment_Table and the VAF_Transfer_Table.

[SvoBrown]

Done a quick comparison between the working and 'dead' chips, they are identical except for changes to the Acceleration_Enrichment_Table and the VAF_Transfer_Table.
Question?
On my svo the A/F gets super rich in the lower rpms if boost starts coming in. (9 and 10 to 1) Will also do it with TPS goes about 25%. Same thing really. Is there a way to keep it from doing this in tunning ? Fuel pressure is set at 31# with no vacumn.

Its like it goes closed loop way to soon. Mr McPeters has the datalog for it.
After boost goes above 10 or 12 psi it levels out better.
Thanks

[Dale McPeters]

Done a quick comparison between the working and 'dead' chips, they are identical except for changes to the Acceleration_Enrichment_Table and the VAF_Transfer_Table.

I noticed that. Also take a look at the injector items as
compared to a stock binary.
You will also notice that I offset the dead chip binary
to the correct address like the good chip. For the Moates
hardware of course...

[sailorbob]

On my svo the A/F gets super rich in the lower rpms if boost starts coming in. (9 and 10 to 1) Will also do it with TPS goes about 25%. Same thing really. Is there a way to keep it from doing this in tunning ?In a word, yes. But I'm not really familiar with the LA3 so I couldn't say what to adjust at the moment.
Also take a look at the injector items as compared to a stock binary.Spotted the injector size change, I haven't had chance to look at the stock vs chip changes yet as the xdf I'm using needs some 'real world' titles instead of the addresses it's got the the moment.
You will also notice that I offset the dead chip binary to the correct address like the good chip. Yep, made it easy to do the two chip compares :)

[sailorbob]

I've done a comparison between the stock bin and the good chip and have the following items as changed;

DEFAULT_IDLE_MASS_AIR
L248A (use unknown)
L248C (use unknown)
OPEN_LOOP_SELECT_TABLE
Decel Fuel Cut In
Decel Fuel Cut Out
CRANKING_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH
WOT_PULSEWIDTH_MULTIPLIER
VAF Samples to Average at Idle
L274C (use unknown)
IDLE_ADDER_FOR_ECT
VAF_MAX_COUNTS
VAF_MAX_COUNTS_#1
MIN_DELTA_VAF
MASS_AIR_TRANSFER_TABLE
VAF_TRANSFER_TABLE
VAT_TRANSFER_TABLE
INJECTOR_SIZE
MASS_AIR_FLOW_GAIN_MULTIPLIER
VAT_MAX_FOR_L5F16
TPS_AD_MAX_COUNTS
VAF_AD_MAX_COUNTS
VAF_AD_MIN_COUNTS
VAF_AD_KOEO_MIN_COUNTS
VAF_AD_COUNT_#1
VAF_AD_COUNT_#2
ACCELERATION_ENRICHMENT_TABLE
PREMIUM_IGNITION_TABLE
REGULAR_IGNITION_TABLE
STARTUP_ISC_TABLE

SvoBrown, I'd try resetting the MASS_AIR_FLOW_GAIN_MULTIPLIER back to a stock setting of 1.00 and see if this helps the overfuelling problem.

EDIT: 28/05/06 Changed three of the unknowns

[Dale McPeters]

A couple of others are
in the decel fuel area..
Got your email will post more
when I get time...

[SvoBrown]

HEy, Good information there. Just wish I could help in the tunning stuff. All I can do is test and see what happens.
Putting a new stock clutch in with a new tranny next weekend so take your time.

Set anything you want where ever you want. I'll let you knonw what happens. If its real good I will take it to the dyno and see.

[Dale McPeters]

Uodate...
Well I finally have a working definition file for Paul's software.
I am still working on the differences in the MAF & VAF stuff as
compared to what the latest TwEECer software shows.
There seems to be a few differences in the way the MAF is used
in the TwEECer software. Or maybe my eyes are crossed and
I can no longer see straight......

I hope to test a few thing on the turbo coupe sometime this
week. (if I do not end up having to work again).
When I am more comfortable with the findings I will post
a few more things..

Still not quite sure about the proper tuning methods for this
as I have very little experience with the 4cyl turbo engines....:baby:

[SvoBrown]

Still excited to see how you do. :popcorn: I picked up s lot of hp when I put the maf on the svo. From 226hp to 286hp with the only other part being an 3"elbow on the turbo. I got many other things done to it but that made them all work together.

Are you changeing injectors in the 86 turbocoupe or are you still with the #30.
I have a new set of #35's if you need to try them.

[Dale McPeters]

Svobrown,

Can you send me another datalog like the one that you
sent before? Need to see what the MAF voltage is when it
goes rich.

I have found the proper MAF adjustment (I hope)...:jester:
After I get the datalog I will make a small change and send the
chips back for you to try...that way we can see what effect it
will have on the AFR.

[SvoBrown]

I will do it first thing Friday. I'm at work tonight.

[SvoBrown]

I started looking closer at the datalog I sent. I may understand what your talking about on the maf stuff now.

How does the tps work on the timing and injectors (fuel) I know i will get full boost at low tps, can this be made so I can control the thottle more instead of just getting full power at low thottle? ??Less timing in the lower thottle and more as the rpms and tps go up.
Cutting my teeth on this question so. Go easy on the poor boy.

[Dale McPeters]

I started looking closer at the datalog I sent. I may understand what your talking about on the maf stuff now.

How does the tps work on the timing and injectors (fuel) I know i will get full boost at low tps, can this be made so I can control the thottle more instead of just getting full power at low thottle? ??Less timing in the lower thottle and more as the rpms and tps go up.
Cutting my theet on this question so. Go easy on the poor boy.

I will take a closer look at the TPS items. The TPS does not seem to be linear for fuel. However the following items are what I am looking at at the present time.

On the items below I have used the current TwEECer software names for those that use the TwEECer & LA3.

MAP - M_0B06 desired load not knocking (rescaled)
MAP - M_0D47 Base Ignition (Regular) Table is 5 or 6 degrees above a stock LA3 binary.
MAP - M_OC8C Premium Ignition (Premium) Table is about 3 deg. higher up to around 4500 rpm.

Function - F_052C - Wot enrichment vs RPM
Function - F_1010 - Air Mass Transfer
Function - F_1038 - VAF Transfer
Function - F-1038 - MAF Transfer BAP =29, VAT=100_F_1010=0.227, P_0402=0.227
Function - F-1038 - MAF Transfer F_1010=0.250, P_0402=0.25

These are just a few of the items that I am trying to get tied together at the moment...:jester:

[SvoBrown]

I started looking closer at the datalog I sent. I may understand what your talking about on the maf stuff now.

.

I take back that last statement.:baby:

[Dale McPeters]

I take back that last statement.:baby:

:lol:
You probably did see what I was talking about but I want to try
to make sure I kind of understand how all of these tie together in tuning...:jester:

[SvoBrown]

How is the learning curve going?

[QWKSNKE]

He is probably looking for some liquor now :jester:

[Dale McPeters]

How is the learning curve going?

Well unfortnately not good as I have a few gremlins in the t'bird...if I do not
find it this weekend I will go ahead and ship your chips back. Then when I
get it finished I will mail you a chip to try. I do not want to send you anything
until I can try it on mine first. ;)

He is probably looking for some liquor now :jester:

Yep a great big bottle.....:drool:

On a side note - just to let you guys know I like my AEM setup with
the small amount of time (break from 2.3L stuff) that I have played
with it. It "REALLY" does give you complete tuning control.....:D

[SvoBrown]

Well unfortnately not good as I have a few gremlins in the t'bird...if I do not
find it this weekend I will go ahead and ship your chips back. Then when I
get it finished I will mail you a chip to try. I do not want to send you anything
until I can try it on mine first. ;)
:D
Test on yours first. Heck no! Mines sitting in the yard waiting on some test runs. Just give it a whim chip and see what happens. Really use my svo for test, it runs good now but could be alot better with the right stuff running it. Not any fun watching someone else do all the work.

[RedSuperRanger23]

4 pages just on tuning the 2.3T and there isnt a 2.3 section? Somethings not right here.

[ncontt]

5 pages now...:)

[SvoBrown]

:popcorn: :unsure:

[Dale McPeters]

:popcorn: :unsure:

You have an email...;)
I tried to post earlier today but there must
have been something wrong with the site....:popcorn:

Anyway drop me an email and let me know for sure
that User1 is the MAF voltage in the last datalog that
you sent to me.....:jester:

[Dale McPeters]

Ok here is what I was talking about......
See Attached..

Oh well I give up on the attachment as it will
not let me get it up on the site and still be clear
enough to see....

So here is a link to it..

http://home.grandecom.net/~mcpetedl/carstuff/svobrown/LA3-lean-3%25.jpg

[QWKSNKE]

fixed it for you :D

[Dale McPeters]

fixed it for you :D

Thank you kind sir......;)

[SvoBrown]

:baby: One of these day, I'll be answering your questions on this stuff.
I have the EEC Editor v2.3 from moates. What else do I need to read and change things (other than knowing what I'm doing) on the files.
I should get the burn1 stuff back next week.

Rev limit at 6750, change injectors sizes. The little things so I can really tear something up.