Need help with possible problem......

[The Rock 326]

O.K., my car is in the shop getting the cams. The passenger side went on fine. the driver's side went in, but when we were putting on the rockers, we couldn't turn the cams by the crank. the cams were having interference on the intake lobe. :think: I don't know if the cams really are different, or there is another problem. Any ideas???









:tlash: :tlash:

[Italian LX]

Make sure all the followers are seated in the lifters correctly and that the timing chain is set correctly.

[Scothew]

Timing chain was my first guess, but I echo brian.

This is really going to suck if that shop sent you the right cam for one side, but not the matching one.

[QWKSNKE]

make sure the cams are in 'time'

[QWKSNKE]

something else...Is the car out of gear?

[Italian LX]

something else...Is the car out of gear?
If the car was in gear, they wouldn't be able to turn it over for the passenger-side follower installation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Rich, but the way I understand is they had both cams installed and used the crank to move the lobes while installing the passenger-side followers and everyhting worked fine. Then when they went to install the driver-side followers, that's when the binding occurs.

From your post, it sounds like it was only the intake that is interfering. From this, I assume they can install all of the exhaust followers with no problem. Is this correct?

[The Rock 326]

If the car was in gear, they wouldn't be able to turn it over for the passenger-side follower installation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Rich, but the way I understand is they had both cams installed and used the crank to move the lobes while installing the passenger-side followers and everyhting worked fine. Then when they went to install the driver-side followers, that's when the binding occurs.

From your post, it sounds like it was only the intake that is interfering. From this, I assume they can install all of the exhaust followers with no problem. Is this correct?

Yea, that is basically the problem.

[The Rock 326]

make sure the cams are in 'time'
He said that they were??

[Italian LX]

So, describe the "interference" -- does it feel like the valve is hitting a piston?

Does anyone know if the 4.6L are set-up to be non-interference motors; if so, would his new lift from his cams change that?

[The Rock 326]

So, describe the "interference" -- does it feel like the valve is hitting a piston?

Does anyone know if the 4.6L are set-up to be non-interference motors; if so, would his new lift from his cams change that?

Yes, valve to piston contact. He looked through the bore and saw it.

[Italian LX]

Yes, valve to piston contact. He looked through the bore and saw it.
It sounds like it's off time. If it were timed correctly, it would be more likely for the exhaust valve to be hitting the piston than the intake.

[The Rock 326]

It sounds like it's off time. If it were timed correctly, it would be more likely for the exhaust valve to be hitting the piston than the intake.

O.k., thanks. I'll get him to check the timing again. :chug:

[QWKSNKE]

If the car was in gear, they wouldn't be able to turn it over for the passenger-side follower installation.



True but I didn't know if, for some reason, somebody had put the car back in gear.



By the way, is this a reputable shop doing it?

[Sendero]

My vote is its out of time. Brian has it right in saying that a exhaust would hit first if they were in time.

[Craig K.]

Are the gears specific side to side?
Are the followers on the valves shimmed at all?
Can you measure the intake lobe and feed that back to the supplier to make sure you have the correct parts?
Again check and make sure that both the cam gears and the crank gear are at the correct positions all at the same time.

[The Rock 326]

True but I didn't know if, for some reason, somebody had put the car back in gear.



By the way, is this a reputable shop doing it?

I'm pretty sure it was not in gear.

It is being done at Adamson by a friend of mine.

[The Rock 326]

Are the gears specific side to side?
Are the followers on the valves shimmed at all?
Can you measure the intake lobe and feed that back to the supplier to make sure you have the correct parts?
Again check and make sure that both the cam gears and the crank gear are at the correct positions all at the same time.

yes the gears are specific.

the followers aren't shimmed that I know of.

The followers, springs, and lifters are all new.

[Italian LX]

The followers, springs, and rockers are all new.
The followers are the rockers. :think:

I'm guessing you meant the lifters. ;)

[The Rock 326]

The followers are the rockers. :think:

I'm guessing you meant the lifters. ;)

yea, you know what i mean. :jester:

[The Rock 326]

Well, just got a call from the mechanic, he said he re-did the timing, and some other things, and got all the followers in place, and said it finally turned. He said he'll have the valve covers on and everything else back in place to crank it up by tomorrow afternoon. He never told me exactly what the problem was tho. :think:


My guess is that you guys were right about the timing. ;) Well, as long as it is right, I don't care.

[Scothew]

damn thats good to hear rich. I knew you were highly pissed/upset earlier when I talked to you. I told it sounded like timing though.

Man I cant wait to check it out tomm :nice:

[hevymtl]

Well, just got a call from the mechanic, he said he re-did the timing, and some other things, and got all the followers in place, and said it finally turned. He said he'll have the valve covers on and everything else back in place to crank it up by tomorrow afternoon. He never told me exactly what the problem was tho. :think:


My guess is that you guys were right about the timing. ;) Well, as long as it is right, I don't care.

:nice:

[banditmwp]

Cool deal. :nice:

[Craig K.]

Can't wait to hear it Rich, I have never heard a cammed 4.6

[94five0]

:werd:

[Italian LX]

Good to hear it wasn't a problem with the cam. :nice:

[FastRedPonyCar]

Behold

VT stage 2's, LT's, Dr. Gas X, spintechs dumped

http://www.aggie97.com/chop.mpg

[93Cobra#2771]

DAAAYUUUMMM, never heard a 4.6 talkin' like that! Sounds Sweet!

[Craig K.]

Sounds like my car.

[The Rock 326]

stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll waiting. :popcorn:

[Scothew]

guessing it wont be tonight then huh? :(

[Sendero]

stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll waiting. :popcorn:

He's driving it, you know that dont you... :jester:

[The Rock 326]

He's driving it, you know that dont you... :jester:
:doh:








Scothew, no it won't be tonite. :(

[Scothew]

that blows.. i was hopeing i'd get to check it out tonight. Oh well, i'll just come drive it down to Sharokah's tomm night for you so he can check it out.

[The Rock 326]

that blows.. i was hopeing i'd get to check it out tonight. Oh well, i'll just come drive it down to Sharokah's tomm night for you so he can check it out.
cool.



BTW, I drove by Adamson just to make sure it was still on the lift. :jester:

[99LS1]

:drool: hurry up and get some sound clips!

[Italian LX]

:drool: hurry up and get some sound clips!
Here's what his car sounds like right now while it sits on the lift:



<moment of silence>



:D

[Scothew]

Hey Rich, did you notice anything new at Adamson.. they have 2 '05 Saleens.

[The Rock 326]

Here's what his car sounds like right now while it sits on the lift:



<moment of silence>



:D

Exactly! :rofl: :rofl:

[The Rock 326]

Hey Rich, did you notice anything new at Adamson.. they have 2 '05 Saleens.
The only Saleen I saw was a Red Focus Saleen. :dunno:

[Scothew]

they have a red GT saleen outside and the black inside

[The Rock 326]

well, the cams went in, and he took it out around the block, and he said the motor seized up. :eek: So, he said he's gonna probably order a new motor. :doh: So, I guess the cams will be coming out, and I will be back to square 1. Now, I'm gonna go and :puke:

[tacbear]

well, the cams went in, and he took it out around the block, and he said the motor seized up. :eek: So, he said he's gonna probably order a new motor. :doh: So, I guess the cams will be coming out, and I will be back to square 1. Now, I'm gonna go and :puke:

That SUX Rich :banghead:

[95GTMan]

well, the cams went in, and he took it out around the block, and he said the motor seized up. :eek: So, he said he's gonna probably order a new motor. :doh: So, I guess the cams will be coming out, and I will be back to square 1. Now, I'm gonna go and :puke:


Man that truely sucks. It amkes me sick to think about it. :puke: :(

[Scothew]

are you serious?!

[The Rock 326]

are you serious?!
I wish I wasn't.

[Scothew]

:puke: I got that sick feeling as well. Make sure when the swap is done, your pullies stay with yours. Also I would do what you can to keep your fuel rails or at least not get 03/04 fuel rails as they dont have the test port on them and make it a PITA to hook up any fuel related devices (guage or nitrous solenoid) later down the road.

[Scothew]

Also you need to find out if it was those cams. Cause if it wasnt the right ones.. the shop that sent them are very liable at this point.

[The Rock 326]

Also you need to find out if it was those cams. Cause if it wasnt the right ones.. the shop that sent them are very liable at this point.
Roque talked to them, and they were positive that they were right. I don't know what will happen as far as the motor. The mechanic said since it came in under warranty with an "engine noise", that he will be able to get another motor. I just hope he is right.

All I know, is that my breakfeast is sitting in my throat right about now. :nono:

[Scothew]

give me a call later... also let me know if i need to do anything for you.

[94five0]

son of a bitch! that ****in sux Rich, he give you any explanation as to why?

[QWKSNKE]

did the dumbass drain the oil and not put any in ?

[The Rock 326]

son of a bitch! that ****in sux Rich, he give you any explanation as to why?

no explanations yet.

[The Rock 326]

did the dumbass drain the oil and not put any in ?

dunno, I didn't get down there today when he fired it.

[Sendero]

Purely Speculation here...

But since he was having a problem with the valve hitting the head before, what if the valve hit the piston? Somethings just not adding up here.

Cam install + siezed motor = no sense

[99LS1]

damn! :( hate to hear that :( Maybe he could "accidentally" swap in a 4v :D

[93Cobra#2771]

I had a bad feeling about the deal when I heard the problems he had on the cam install. Course I don't know shit about modulars, though...

Holy crap, that sucks man!

[QWKSNKE]

Purely Speculation here...

But since he was having a problem with the valve hitting the head before, what if the valve hit the piston? Somethings just not adding up here.

Cam install + siezed motor = no sense

Actually it is

Cam install + loud bang of metal = seized motor

It didn't just freaking quit/lockup while going around the block.

Rich
What were the specs on those cams?

[The Rock 326]

Purely Speculation here...

But since he was having a problem with the valve hitting the head before, what if the valve hit the piston? Somethings just not adding up here.

Cam install + siezed motor = no sense

I told him after the problems initally, to just pull the cams, and put the stock ones back in. I too had a bad feeling about the whole thing.

Talked to him a minute ago, and he said that it had a noise in #7, & #8 like a lifter. He says it went away, then he went 2 blocks down the road, and the motor died. I have let him do all my work on my cars for about 7 years now, but for some reason he really ****ed up this time. I just hope he comes through with the warranty deal, and get it back to stock. I'm gonna just send the cams to Comp., and let them check them out and make sure they're o,k, then sell them.

I give up! :headbang: This whole ordeal has made me not want to do anything else to my car now. I'm even thinking about selling the car now, and getting a truck. It's just too damn expensive for me. :notnice:

[Sendero]

Actually it is

Cam install + loud bang of metal = seized motor

It didn't just freaking quit/lockup while going around the block.

Rich
What were the specs on those cams?

This may be my lack of experience here:

But I have never known of a dropped valve seizing a motor up. Now a dropped valve can lead to a busted piston and eventually a rod that leads up to a seized motor. Thats what I am getting at.

But as stated above, I'm speculating. Lets wait for the official word.

[QWKSNKE]

I give up! :headbang: This whole ordeal has made me not want to do anything else to my car now. I'm even thinking about selling the car now, and getting a truck. It's just too damn expensive for me. :notnice:


I wouldn't do that. At least its no money out of your pocket. It will be worth it when you get some more info about the cams.

[The Rock 326]

Actually it is

Cam install + loud bang of metal = seized motor

It didn't just freaking quit/lockup while going around the block.

Rich
What were the specs on those cams?
here are the specs, Lee.

[The Rock 326]

This may be my lack of experience here:

But I have never known of a dropped valve seizing a motor up. Now a dropped valve can lead to a busted piston and eventually a rod that leads up to a seized motor. Thats what I am getting at.

But as stated above, I'm speculating. Lets wait for the official word.

well, unfortunately. I don't know shit about motors, as you guys know. I just wish I had someone else too look at it and find out what the hell went wrong.

[Sendero]

What about CobraKiller? Dave? They would know right off hand if those cam specs would work in your stock motor or not.

[The Rock 326]

What about CobraKiller? Dave? They would know right off hand if those cam specs would work in your stock motor or not.
They came out of an 02'?? :dunno:

[svopaul]

This sucks Rich, sorry to hear about the trouble.

[Sendero]

Hope you don't mind, but to expidite some answers I posted this over at ModularPowerhouse. Names have been changed to protect the innocent. ;)

http://forums.modularpowerhouse.com/showthread.php?p=155580#post155580

[The Rock 326]

Hope you don't mind, but to expidite some answers I posted this over at ModularPowerhouse. Names have been changed to protect the innocent. ;)

http://forums.modularpowerhouse.com/showthread.php?p=155580#post155580

That's cool, thanks Nathan. :chug:

[Scothew]

Rich, Roque didnt have any head or shortblock work done on his 02 when he ran these cams did he? Just the upgraded springs like you had.

[The Rock 326]

Rich, Roque didnt have any head or shortblock work done on his 02 when he ran these cams did he? Just the upgraded springs like you had.

You are correct, sir.

[Wall96cobra]

Rich I did some research on those cams and tried to call you back the other day but anyway I found alot of 96-98 people that had PTV clearance problems with the comp 270 cams but the the 96-98 GT's don't have dished pistons like the 99-04's. Those are agressive cams with alot of duration but even if you did have some PTV contact it would not seize up your motor. I think the mechanic must have done something wrong or forgot to do something when putting the car back together. If you do decide on cams get the VT or some of Tim's cams, nobody has had PTV clearance problems with those.

[96GTS]

Damn...last time I looked at this, he just re-installed the cams and all was good. Sorry to hear about this bro :( Is this your daily driver?

[The Rock 326]

Rich I did some research on those cams and tried to call you back the other day but anyway I found alot of 96-98 people that had PTV clearance problems with the comp 270 cams but the the 96-98 GT's don't have dished pistons like the 99-04's. Those are agressive cams with alot of duration but even if you did have some PTV contact it would not seize up your motor. I think the mechanic must have done something wrong or forgot to do something when putting the car back together. If you do decide on cams get the VT or some of Tim's cams, nobody has had PTV clearance problems with those.


Yep, I think the fu*k-up was on him as well. I don't think I am going to bother with any more mods anytime soon.



96GTS, yes it is my DD.

[Scothew]

I agree with Wall. Its understandable on a flattop piston like a 96-98, but not on the dished 99+. I think something happened and it "Magically" started working fine.. i hate magic fixes.

[The Rock 326]

I agree with Wall. Its understandable on a flattop piston like a 96-98, but not on the dished 99+. I think something happened and it "Magically" started working fine.. i hate magic fixes.
:agree: magic fixes=teh :bomb:

[asilver2001gt]

that sux rich...i left my phone at home this morning and just got your message

[Wicked]

Damn dude, that sucks. Let us know if we can help in any way.

[banditmwp]

Damn, Rich, that sucks to hear. :( Keep us updated.

[Craig K.]

Rich,

I just read what happened, that totally blows. What is he doing to it now, pulling the heads to investigate?

Could it be parhaps that he some how f'ed up the chain and it came off, there by stopping the engine?

Just throwing out ideas, without actually seeing it thats all I can do.

[The Rock 326]

Rich,

I just read what happened, that totally blows. What is he doing to it now, pulling the heads to investigate?

Could it be parhaps that he some how f'ed up the chain and it came off, there by stopping the engine?

Just throwing out ideas, without actually seeing it thats all I can do.

I really don't know what he is doing with it.

[QWKSNKE]

here are the specs, Lee.


Based off the specs, it isn't the cam's fault. I am willing to bet that either the cams still were not 'in time' or something about the chain tensioner was not right.

Doesn't matter now though. What's done is done and you are getting another motor with no cost to you. Take it somewhere else for the cam install.

[slvrbullit]

Damn Rich that sucks bro, I know your friend there and he did all the work on my moms car until he changed to Adamson. I really dont think he would short cut anything unless he had an underling helping him and the trainee forgot to fill it back up with oil.

[Sendero]

Ford uses 2 types of pistons when the assemble the motor. I thought it was clearly based on the Windsor Romeo thing but have learned that it is pretty much whatever they have lying around at the time regardless of plant. It does not surprise me that that it worked fine in one car and not another.

The 2 pistons differ by the thickness of the outter lip of the piston face or top.. If you ask the guy I'd bet my left nut there are winkies along the outter edge fo the piston. Comp realized this was a problem and supposedly changed cores in the latter part of 2004. Becuase he bought the cams used I seriously doubt he will have a chance at taking this up with Comp. When I got my bad cams I called like 5 times to ensure they would work, specifically told them I was not taking the heads off anew car, and was actually yelled at by the tech there saying, "dude, I myself have put this cam in a bunch of 4.6s with no problem". Tim called and asked the same thing, same answer. So, when there were clearance issue I had serious gripe with Comp. I know you should always clearance a motor, but an off the shelf cam for a stock car should fit all stock cars in my opinion. That and the fact that Comp was all up mine and Tim's butt about it pissed me off and when I brought it to Comp they bought me new valves.

Tell your freind, congradulations, he like me, has the very rare off the wall piston that does not work with Comp cams. At the very least he needs to go through the heads and check the valves. I replaced the whole dang motor. Sorry for his luck, if he wants to chat PM me.


:hmm:

[The Rock 326]

:hmm:

Well, hell. :hmm:

[hevymtl]

Hey,Rock nice avatar. Where did you find it? :D

[99LS1]

:( I hate comp cams, they're tech support is the worst, every person I've talked to is a complete ass.

[The Rock 326]

Hey,Rock nice avatar. Where did you find it? :D
:jester:

[The Rock 326]

:( I hate comp cams, they're tech support is the worst, every person I've talked to is a complete ass.

yea, I called them, and they couldn't tell me shit.

[FastRedPonyCar]

Man this makes me sick just thinking about it. I can't believe that happened. I say you get your money back for those comp's and get the guy (or better yet, Tim) install a pair of VT's cams.

Don't give up on this. You gotta roll with the punches.

[hevymtl]

Damn, Rich Ive been in and out of the boards briefly the last couple of days. I did not know your motor was locked up!! Im real sorry to hear that ,man!

[The Rock 326]

well here are some pics of part of the work that did go right. before, and after.

[hevymtl]

well here are some pics of part of the work that did go right. before, and after.


Looks good ,man! Keep ya head up it all work out.

[The Rock 326]

Can someone enlighten me on this??

{Quote} Ive seen quite a few differnt pistons in the PI enginess from flat top romeo PI crown vics pistons to the floating pin deep dish windsor truck pistons. And then add in the the factory universal reman 4.6's with the .020 over pistons.{Quote}

Does this mean all 4.6 re-man's are .20 over, and if so, what kind of HP difference could there be, if any??

[Italian LX]

Can someone enlighten me on this??

{Quote} Ive seen quite a few differnt pistons in the PI enginess from flat top romeo PI crown vics pistons to the floating pin deep dish windsor truck pistons. And then add in the the factory universal reman 4.6's with the .020 over pistons.{Quote}

Does this mean all 4.6 re-man's are .20 over, and if so, what kind of HP difference could there be, if any??
You're only talking about a few cubic inches extra; not enough to be a noticable difference

[The Rock 326]

You're only talking about a few cubic inches extra; not enough to be a noticable difference

Damnit!

[96GTS]

Damnit!
.20 over will give you 283ci.

Get some VT cams and you might notice the difference :banana:

[Italian LX]

.20 over will give you 283ci.
Do your math again; it would be a 284. :P


. . . and they say Alabama has bad schools. :shake:

[Scothew]

I think the sun has fried Darren's brain.

[The Rock 326]

Do your math again; it would be a 284. :P


. . . and they say Alabama has bad schools. :shake:
:rofl:

[banditmwp]

Do your math again; it would be a 284. :P


. . . and they say Alabama has bad schools. :shake:
:lol: :lol:

[96GTS]

I think the sun has fried Darren's brain.
Small price to pay to be wearing shorts/t-shirt to work in the middle of winter :jester:

[The Rock 326]

Update: I got a phone call that a re-man crate motor arrived with my name on it this morning. :metal:

[Italian LX]

Update: I got a phone call that a re-man crate motor arrived with my name on it this morning. :metal:
So, what will be your first mod? :D

[The Rock 326]

So, what will be your first mod? :D

:doh:







Well, it won't be cams. :jester:

[hevymtl]

:doh:







Well, it won't be cams. :jester:

Why not? :dunno:

[TheJeanyus]

Why not? :dunno:
I guess he's skeered now.

[The Rock 326]

I guess he's skeered now.
:yup: And besides that, I will take it somewhere else if I do anything else internal to the motor.

I just hope I can sell the cams, and springs and get at least some of my money back.

[The Rock 326]

Here is teh new motor.

[Italian LX]

Here is teh new motor.
Nice. :nice:


I hope you insist on someone else at the dealership putting it in; I wouldn't let that other dude even look at that new motor. ;)

[The Rock 326]

Nice. :nice:


I hope you insist on someone else at the dealership putting it in; I wouldn't let that other dude even look at that new motor. ;)
:werd:

I hope to get it back in a day or 2. waiting on teh clutch. The tear-down has begun. :popcorn:

[hevymtl]

:werd:

I hope to get it back in a day or 2. waiting on teh clutch. The tear-down has begun. :popcorn:


Why does the leftside of your car in pic 2 look like its been slidding on the ground?

[Italian LX]

Why does the leftside of your car in pic 2 look like its been slidding on the ground?
That's from where the tech was dogging the shit out of it and jumping curbs. :burnout:


j/k :jester:

[hevymtl]

That's from where the tech was dogging the shit out of it and jumping curbs. :burnout:


j/k :jester:

Thats what I was thinking! :rofl:

[The Rock 326]

Why does the leftside of your car in pic 2 look like its been slidding on the ground?

its concrete from where they were working on Red Mtn.(Hwy 31) a month or so ago. :slap:

[hevymtl]

:slap:

:slap:

[The Rock 326]

Well, I should have known, more bad news. :fuss: Well the motor swap was approved, but I get a call that my warranty expired a month ago, and now they are telling me that I have to pay A PARTIAL COST OF $500.00. :eek: I would have thought that that would have come up 10 days ago before the motor crapped out! I smell some :bs: So now I'm out the money for cams & springs, now $500 more. :banghead: The ONLY reason I proceeded with this shit was b/c it was under warranty with nofurther cost incurred on my part. It looks like I'll be going back down to the shop, again tomorrow.

So now even if I do sell the cams, I'll have to use that to pay for a motor that the installer blew up. :gatlin: :gatlin: muther ****ing son of a bitch.

With all the money spent, I could have gotten a S/C! :doh:

[NightHawk756]

Well, I should have known, more bad news. :fuss: Well the motor swap was approved, but I get a call that my warranty expired a month ago, and now they are telling me that I have to pay A PARTIAL COST OF $500.00. :eek: I would have thought that that would have come up 10 days ago before the motor crapped out! I smell some :bs: So now I'm out the money for cams & springs, now $500 more. :banghead: The ONLY reason I proceeded with this shit was b/c it was under warranty with nofurther cost incurred on my part. It looks like I'll be going back down to the shop, again tomorrow.

So now even if I do sell the cams, I'll have to use that to pay for a motor that the installer blew up. :gatlin: :gatlin: muther ****ing son of a bitch.

With all the money spent, I could have gotten a S/C! :doh:Holy Crap man!! I'm sorry that the few times I've been around you that my crappy bad luck rubbed off on you. I thought it wasn't contagious. :shrug: :nono:

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear all this man. I was gonna say that now was a better time than any to have some VT cams installed while the motor was out. But, that money has to go for partial payment. Sheesh, this sucks man. :bs:

[FastRedPonyCar]

You know, it's funny how they just happen to forget to mention these things...

Why not put the motor in yourself with Paul or someone?

[Sendero]

What? $500? No no no. Thats the tech's fault, not yours.

[The Rock 326]

What? $500? No no no. Thats the tech's fault, not yours.

I'm working on it. ;)

[CrazyInBlack]

that is total crap, i am sorry Rich

[The Rock 326]

that is total crap, i am sorry Rich
:chug: