Ft. Lewis, WA area needs help!

[thegiecks]

I HAVE A DILEMMA!!
I recently swaped a caurberated 5.0 for an EFI 5.0 but ill be damned if i could figure out how to hook the damn thing up right. I have never wired anything more than a plug in a socket, so im clueless. I have 2 complee harnesses, and the computers to run it.

IF ANYONE KNOWS ANY INFO ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!
Or if anyone is near me, if you can call me and possible give me a hand, i have the leftover motor parts for your troubles. All I want to do is take the best of the 2 motors, make 1 good one, and you can have the rest! If your interested, e-mail me at
thegiecks@yahoo.com and i will give you my phone number then.

Will

[coupe]

Hey Will,

Most of us are in the Southeast but it should not be too difficult.

I know two places that might help out but they're closer to Portland:
Blue Oval Performance, in Lacenter, WA (360) 993-1745

Or Performance Systems NW in Clackamas, OR (503) 209-6514 ask for Dana.
They're a pretty good shop.

Matt from SPEC sent you.

[joker]

A bit more information might help. What year is the car? What year is your computer harness, dash harness, tail harness and all that stuff from. Also, is it a speed density or mass air setup? 99% of people go mass air, but if you somehow got a speed density computer harness it has to be altered to work with a mass air setup. Other than that my best recomendation is to get a buddy with a stock efi 5.0 so that you will have something to reference as far as sensor and wiring locations. Trust me it is hard to start from ground zero if the have no f'ing clue what you are doing, but take your time, dont get too agravated and it will all come together. Just pray your car isnt like mine was and some idiot cut a bunch of harnesses, because then you go in to a whole different world of issues.

[QWKSNKE]

A bit more information might help. What year is the car? What year is your computer harness, dash harness, tail harness and all that stuff from. Also, is it a speed density or mass air setup? 99% of people go mass air, but if you somehow got a speed density computer harness it has to be altered to work with a mass air setup. Other than that my best recomendation is to get a buddy with a stock efi 5.0 so that you will have something to reference as far as sensor and wiring locations. Trust me it is hard to start from ground zero if the have no f'ing clue what you are doing, but take your time, dont get too agravated and it will all come together. Just pray your car isnt like mine was and some idiot cut a bunch of harnesses, because then you go in to a whole different world of issues.

+1

Give us some background on the car and what you are trying to do

[streetstang88]

i should have wireing diagram on mitchell on demand ...just got to figure out how to post it or send it to you ...like the others said need more info on what you have

[vristang]

I am in the area and may be able to help, but the last thing I need is more stang parts in my garage :jester:

In all honesty, the other guys here will be able to provide just as much help via the internet as I could in person. And my schedule won't help much either.

I think Autozone has online wiring diagrams of our cars (but maybe it was another parts store?)

As mentioned throw up as many details as you know, and we will do the best we can to help.

jason

[joker]

Yes, Autozone does have online diagrams. However, they are not worth a crap.

[thegiecks]

Well, since the concensus is that you guys need more info, here goes!
The car is a 4 banger converted to 8, so it still has the 7.6" rearend. No exhaust. Wiring in the car seems to be untouched. I am trying to just get it running smoothly. The motor that is in it now came out of a 92 or 93 gt or cobra, im not sure how to tell the difference, but he said it was one of the 2. Engine compatment is a mess. Dirty and just chambles. This Friday im hoping to get a chance to clean it up and get everything tagged. When i disconnected all of the 4 things connected to the carb'd one( throttle linkage, cruise control, drive shaft and shift linkage) there is some stuff still in there i have no idea what it is. There is a line that leaks brake fluid, but i cant find where it leads to the res. of any ther brake line! I honestly do not know the condition of the 2 harnesses for the motor besides visual inspection. I have owned a 1988 5.0 GT in the past, but i never got into doing anything with it, and I am still kicking myself for trading it in on a truck!
Anyways... All i can tell you is that the harnesses do not look like they have been cut or altered from their original setup. The sockets for the front lights ( i think thats what they are for, they are amber) are still in the socket. I found a diagram at:
veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/
I dont know what type of motor it is ( mass air or speed dens.) and im not sure how to tell the difference. It has the smog pump on it and i want to get rid of that crap. I will probably just switch the heads and pull all that crap. I was told that i might have to put an idler pulley there so the belt will reach, is this true?

I am just in the dark here, and I only get 1 or 2 days a week to work on it, with at the most 4 hours each time and its costing me an arm and a leg to store this car for so long. Plus I have to pay every time i want to work on the damn thing. I guess i am just frustrated. If you guys can think of any other questions to ask me, please let me know, i appreciate the help.

Will

[Italian LX]

I always like to see people willing to learn and I don't want to discourage you from tackling a project yourself, but there a few comments in your above post that make me think that you may have bit off more than you can chew at your current level. If you're having to pay to store it and work on it, you may want to consider just cutting your losses and selling what you have... or at least find a different place that you can store it so that you can work on it at your own pace for free.

[thegiecks]

i could not agree with you more, and i have conteplated this issue a hundred times and a thousand times again. It just that, when i was 18, i had that 88gt, and that car was the best car i had ever had, and now that i have this one again, it would almost feel like losing the same car and the chance to drive a car like a true Stang again! My wife said i could either have a bike or a stang, and i went for the car. I would... WILL have more fun in this thing than a bike could ever give me, and its safer too! Its not a bad deal i think. A straight body w/ full clean interior and good glass, 1 complete EFI 302 motor, 1 not so complete carb'd 302 motor, and a 351 windsor longblock for $1K.
As far as the storing it for cheaper, MAN! I have asked all around.. nobody seems to have free space. If you know anyone in my neck of the woods! drop me a line anyone!!!

[thegiecks]

Coupe, this one is for you.

Thank you for those numbers!! I called over to the store in Lacenter, and talked to their VERY informed techs, and he told me that the wiring harnesses wont work because the car is a 90 and the motor is a 92 or 93 and Ford changed things for each year. Now im in a pickle. I dont have the kind of cash to buy a Painless Harness! Any suggestions ANYBODY?

[Italian LX]

. . . and he told me that the wiring harnesses wont work because the car is a 90 and the motor is a 92 or 93 and Ford changed things for each year.
Which wiring harness(es) do you have? There should be 5 main peices that come apart:

CPU Harness (goes through firewall on passanger-side)
Dash Harness (goes through firewall on driver-side)
Headlight Harness (connects to the dash harness near the coil)
Injector Harness (connects to CPU harness via the "salt & pepper shakers")
Tail Light Harness (connects to the dash harness at driver's kick panel)

There are other sub-harnesses within some of the above, but those are the major components.

[thegiecks]

All the vehicle harnesses are still in it. The only one I have out is the engine harness. And maybe the front light harness.

[Italian LX]

All the vehicle harnesses are still in it. The only one I have out is the engine harness. And maybe the front light harness.
You're best bet is to get a CPU harness and a headlight harness for a 1990 5.0L mustang. Everything will plug up just right.

FYI: The only reason you need a different headlight harness is because it also connects to the alternator... which is on the opposite side of the engine compartment for a 2.3L vs. 5,0L.

[joker]

The O2 sensor harness also disconnects from the main engine harness, but if yours isnt there then they are easy to find. I would serisouly consider finding somewhere else to store and work on the car. If you dont it will possibly end up costing a fortune by the time you finish.

[thegiecks]

I wish i had a barn with all the tools i would even need, and i wouldnt have to pay anyone to use their sh**. I am trying to get a storage unit at my town house for 85 a month, but they wont let me work on my car, well, they will kick me out IF! i get caught. the only problem with that is transporting the car once i get it, that will be another 60 for a tow dolly... this car is getting expensive. i really really really hate the thought of selling it to get a bike...

[SkurdalenFox]

You may find a EVTM helpful.

CD versions can be had on eBay for ~$10.

Example -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993-93-Ford-Mustang-Service-Repair-Manual-CD-EVTM-PCED_W0QQitemZ270014892306QQihZ017QQcategoryZ34220 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[thegiecks]

would my life be a whole lot easier if i just cleaned up the carb'd motor and put the carb'd motor back in it and said to hell with the EFI, and just ran a carb'd setup? or to keep the better of the 2 blocks and just swap the intake manifolds and keep the carb'd setup there? that eliminates all of the wiring nightmare right?

[thegiecks]

never heard of an EVTM, but i will take a look for 1, thx

[thegiecks]

the motor i pulled has a C4 attached to it, or so the guy said. how do i know its a C4? where are the markings? and if it is, how hard is it to just swap tranny's on the 2 motors besides the seal of course?

[QWKSNKE]

Just so that I am clear...

Car is originally a 90 LX (2.3 car)
You have a 92-up COMPLETE EFI 302. This engine came with its own harness?
You also have a ?? model carb 302 (complete?)

Do you have a any harness from a v-8 car

[thegiecks]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes, it is a Carter AFB Competition Series Carb, not sure the size, and yes the motor is almost complete. The Alt. that he gave with it, 1 of the mounting holes is broke, and the front of the motor doesnt have enything except the water pump and lower pulley on it, but all of the parts came with it in the back of the car.
Man I wish i had my digital camera! (Someone decided they needed it more that I did, and took it!)
i have 2 harnesses for an engine, 1 is for sure for the 92+ engine, the other looks alot if not exactly like it and came with the car, so im guessing it was for the car. Not sure for a V8 of 4-banger.

[thegiecks]

heres a doozy of a question. If i wanted too, could i just pull that 302 back out, take the carb'd setup off of the other motor, and put it all on my 351? I know i would need a couple things, but since i have to go through this much trouble trying to get it running now, why not go with the bigger motor? I know i need an oil pan for sure, but what about mounts? Are they different?
Just throwing out some different ideas. I know its probably stupid, but i would like to know.

[QWKSNKE]

you could do the carb but you will still need the harness for the alternator.

You would need an intake for the 351. I believe the oil pan off of a foxbody 302 will work

[thegiecks]

would i need a complete harness, or can i make something work with a little cut and splice? I have 2 of them, so im sure 1 can be a guinea pig. what do you mean by intake, the lower manifold? or the air cleaner?

[Italian LX]

I believe the oil pan off of a foxbody 302 will work
Nope, they are different between the two blocks. :shake:

[thegiecks]

italian lx, do you know what he is talking about when he says the intake?

[coupe]

Another suggestion: not to sound like the authority, but judging by the situation and your questions, you probably will save yourself alot of headaches and have the car completed much faster if you have a shop help out with it. :nice: We have alot of tech & resources here, but no amount of bandwidth is going to get that conversion done without some on-the-scene help. ;)

[thegiecks]

i would love to give it to a shop and say "please make it run" but unfortunatly, i dont have around $250 to do so. I called a couple local shops here in the area and they charge no less than $65-75/hr to work on it. Now, i know that they are good and all, but i am a mechanic for the Army and i know we (as mechaincs) like to..."drag our feet" about things. if he is getting paid by the hour, whats to rush him? take longer, get paid an extra 60 bucks... darn... decisions decisions...im not trying to be an ass, but ive been screwed by mechanics before.
I took my truck into a shop to have the clutch fixed (prior Army and skill mind you) and he said, "$350 and ill have it done tomorrow evening" said sure. dropped off the truck. he calls next day saying its going to be an extra 100 because he didnt realize what kind of work he was doing. tried desputing kindly. tried getting other parties involved. short story, ended up paying almost 500 for a clutch replacement. wont happen again.

the reason im having trouble with this is because i SUCK A$$ at wiring. I cant read a schematic to save my life. Why pay a mechanic when i can ask some nice, informed people, get a grasp on my sitation and options, and then try to tackle this like Brian Erlacher (sp) tackles anyone that gets near him. Thanks for the kind word tho...

[Italian LX]

italian lx, do you know what he is talking about when he says the intake?
He's refering to the lower manifold; it's different between the 302 and 351 due to the taller deck height of the block.

[QWKSNKE]

He's refering to the lower manifold; it's different between the 302 and 351 due to the taller deck height of the block.

or in a carb vehicle...

The aluminum thing on top of the motor that the carb bolts to.

My bad on the oil pan, I thought the bolt pattern and dimensions were the same

[Italian LX]

My bad on the oil pan, I thought the bolt pattern and dimensions were the same
I think everything is close, but the huge 3" main in the back is what makes them incompatible.

[coupe]

Will, I certainly understand about the money. Good luck on it. If you were closer, I think you'd have plenty of help from us :D

[thegiecks]

havent had a chance to get on in a few days. im hoping i will have internet hooked up soon at my house. well... how much would a 351 manifold be? or if anyone knows somone who has one who needs a 302, or a 302 and some money? who knows. All i know is that this is becoming a headache quicker than i had hoped. I at least wanted to have it running before i started thinking about changing my mind. oh well. i still havent had a chance to get to see the car in almost 2 weeks. i hate having it yet not having it... know what i mean? well thank you all for your help.

by the by... is there a way to save this discussion tgo my account? i would like to be able to reference it before it gets deleted. thx

[Italian LX]

well... how much would a 351 manifold be?
You should be able to find a cheap one at a junkyard or something. I had a 2bbl manifold that came on the 351W I bought a year ago, but I threw it away since I don't deal with carbs.

by the by... is there a way to save this discussion tgo my account? i would like to be able to reference it before it gets deleted. thx
Unless something weird happends to this forum, this thread will be here indefinitely for future reference.