solid roller cams???????

[97cobrasvt]

I was just wondering what ya think is better a solid roller or a hyd roller the coupe I have just got has a solid roller in her and I am use to using a hyd roller its just aggervating having to adjust the valves all the time I need to buy some guide plates for it . Whats ya's take on it. Thanks Steven

[coupe]

Nobody answered...sorry.

Here's my take on it: You don't need a solid roller unless it's a max-effort race car that you take above 7000 RPM. In that situation, you would want accuracy and performance that a hydraulic lifter just cannot react to. A solid profile needs tremendous spring pressures and like you said, correct adjustment with feeler-gauges. Being loose or tight by a couple thousandths can limit several hundred RPM worth of the powerband.

If you run it on the street...hydraulic rollers are fine. They're forgiving, easy to set up, and you can make 1000 hp with them in the right applications. :nice:

Since you already have a solid setup, you might be able to get with a cam professional (FTI, Bullet Cams, CamMotion, Camshaft Innovations, etc...) to build you a low-lash cam that uses all your existing stuff and doesn't require much adjustment. It is possible, but may not be cheap.

[97cobrasvt]

thanks man

[Wickd GT]

I went from a hydr roller to a solid roller. It is a tight lash cam, .010" hot and what I do is set them up a bit tight, meaning, make the filler gauge drag fbetween the valve and the tip of the roller rocker, put a stud girdle on it recheck everything and drive it on the street. Probably need to recheck about every 3 weeks depending on the usage of the motor. Intead of changing lifters pushrods and cam, get another solid roller with a tight lash for street drive and probably don't need as much of spring pressure. Get one from Cammotion, custom specify low lash.


Edgar

[QWKSNKE]

Edgar brought up a good point. Does your car have a roker arm girdle? If not, I think it would benefit you

[97cobrasvt]

The guy I bought the car from said it needed a girdle to drive it on the street so I would say it does not . I have not had the valve cover off yet to know exactlly. Edgar I plan on running NOS on the car so if I went with a new cam would you go primarly with a nitrous cam or with a motor cam and what kind. Thanks ya for ya's help

[QWKSNKE]

I reallllllly like the AFM cams so far. I ran one on my blower setup and new grind for the motor setup I have now. According to them the cam I have now is also good for up to a 300 shot

[97cobrasvt]

so, would ya'll go with a nitrous cam or a naturally aspirated cam? I do plan on running alot of nitrous through the car so I didn't know if I should go with a nitrous cam to maximize the performance but I dont know alot about nitrous cams to pick one out so I need ya's help!!!!!

[coupe]

Okay, what is the engine.? How many cubes? What block? Heads? Intake? Induction choices? What do you plan to do with this car? Just the track? Are you going to stay solid roller? :shrug: Then we can come up with some ideas. :nice:

[97cobrasvt]

It's a 351 stroked to a 396 stock block (I believe) ,victor JR heads (stock I believe),trick flow upper and lower, NX nitrous kit ,it will be mostly a track car not a daily driver but I will be driving on the road every once in a while. As far as staying with the solid roller it all depends on whats the best way to go I would hate to have to buy all the stuff to go hydr but if I need to I will unless like Edgar said to get a cam with a tight lash. The cam in the car now is a Crower cam with a Intake: dur of 290 and lift of .557 Exhaust: dur of 296 and lift of .546 . The intake lash is set at .022 exhaust is set at .024 so if I get a nitrous cam with a low lash I will keep the solid to keep expense down . I plan on spraying around 250 to 300 if the block does not split:jester:

[Wickd GT]

Since you are going to spray 250-300, I sugest a nitrous cam. But before anything. Is it a manual tranny or automatic? You need to tell me what is duration at .050" Then I can recomend a cam. But if you are going to spray more than N/A, this is what I recomend. Get a solid from Cam motion, give them the specs and how much juice you are going to spray. Specify that you want a 112 lobe separation, this give you both worlds, N/A and Nitrous. You motor should be running in the 10s already with the specs you gave us if you have not run it yet. Next thing is how high you want to spin the motor, but with that solid roller you should be spinning at around 7,000rpms. A tight lash will be the best because you will be able to drive it on the street, but you need to get a stud girle, because that valve train vibrates a lot and that is when the studs start flexing and let go.


Edgar

[1Quik85GT]

solid roller here!!! I drive mine on the street, and check the valve lash whenever i got to the track, and sometimes its moved sometimes it hasnt, according to how much driving I have done. I turn mine not higher than 7k. 10.90s N/A. For the last couple of months it hasnt been turned over 1,000 rpms..lol. I guess i better start it. I would highly recommend a solid over a hyd. cam. You will make more HP with it........i gurantee it

[97cobrasvt]

Since you are going to spray 250-300, I sugest a nitrous cam. But before anything. Is it a manual tranny or automatic? You need to tell me what is duration at .050" Then I can recomend a cam. But if you are going to spray more than N/A, this is what I recomend. Get a solid from Cam motion, give them the specs and how much juice you are going to spray. Specify that you want a 112 lobe separation, this give you both worlds, N/A and Nitrous. You motor should be running in the 10s already with the specs you gave us if you have not run it yet. Next thing is how high you want to spin the motor, but with that solid roller you should be spinning at around 7,000rpms. A tight lash will be the best because you will be able to drive it on the street, but you need to get a stud girle, because that valve train vibrates a lot and that is when the studs start flexing and let go.


Edgar



The car is a manual trans TKO 500. I am not at home to look at the cam card but when I get home sunday I will post it up.I believe the lobe seperation is 110 on the cam mentioned. What is a good stud girtle to use? Thanks for ya's help Steven

[Wickd GT]

The car is a manual trans TKO 500. I am not at home to look at the cam card but when I get home sunday I will post it up.I believe the lobe seperation is 110 on the cam mentioned. What is a good stud girtle to use? Thanks for ya's help Steven



Comp Cams sell a good stud girdle.


Edgar

[Blown 5.0]

I plan on spraying around 250 to 300 if the block does not split:jester:[/QUOTE]

I personally dont like a solid cam, There are motors in excess of 1000 hp running hyd cams, without the valve train wear of solid. BUT to each his own. My primary intrest in this thread is the quote above (if the block does not split) The block will not split if detionation is kept under control, I have watched people for years blame weak blocks, to much spray, ect, on splitting blocks, burning pistons,destroying motors in general. When all the time they did not have a clue where inital timing was at much less what total timing was. I have seen stock block motors making in excess of 800 hp with not even a(main) stud girdle. But timing and afr was kept under tight control. The programmable digital 7 from msd is a very very good peice to make a car go fast and the motor to live. Didnt mean to rant early this morning, but its my pet peeve to hear some one talk about a baby Henry being weak

[97cobrasvt]

well everyone knows (Well I hope) that a car that is set up right and has the correct tune will last for a while but the stock blocks can only last for so long with that amount of power going through them its been proven time and time again thank you

[97cobrasvt]

Duration at .050" Intake 248 degree Exhaust 252 degree

Lobe lift at .050 Intake .348 Exhaust .341

This might be a dump ??? but why did you need to know the lift at .050 to find what cam I need to run I'm sorry for my ignorence but would like to know:doh:

[coupe]

He doesn't need to know the .050...Edgar's just being nosey. :poke:

But I will contest his statement about the 112º LSA. The cam pros at CamMotion, FTI, or Camshaft Innovations will set the whole thing up for you. It might be on a 108º LSA and it might be on a 115º LSA. They have the knowhow to get the timing events right.

That cam you have sounds fairly mild for a solid roller. If you're not wanting the adjustment, do the switch to hydraulic roller. Set it and forget it. You can still make 500 or so N/A with that big motor on a hydraulic...maybe more. :shrug:

[Wickd GT]

I wanted to know what was the lift at .050" to see how high are the lobes and how fast are the ramps, and yes what Coupe said it is pretty mild cam you have there, what you need to know what is the spring pressure. My cam at .050" is .246/256 a bit more aggresive on the exhaust. If you planning going Hyd, then do it right from the get go. First is to get the Hydr link bar roller lifters from Crane, second, get a custom cam from Ed Curtis, Cammotion or other, except Cammotion. Then a set of spring that goes with that Hydr cam springs, so is going to cost you pretty good money to make the change.


Edgar

[1sicklx]

Cammotion or other, except Cammotion.

:think: I'm not sure that came out right ?? :shrug:

[coupe]

I think he meant especially Cammotion. Edgar has a CamMotion grind currently I believe.

[Wickd GT]

I think he meant especially Cammotion. Edgar has a CamMotion grind currently I believe.

Mine is a cammotion cam, what I meant not to get is a Cam Innovation, my opinion on this one.


Edgar

[97cobrasvt]

well I believe if I do like Edgar said and get a solid cam with a tight lash it would work great. With the heads still on the car is there anyway to tell the spring pressure or will I need to remove the heads to find out the spring pressure. Thanks Steven

[Blown 5.0]

He doesn't need to know the .050...Edgar's just being nosey. :poke:

But I will contest his statement about the 112º LSA. The cam pros at CamMotion, FTI, or Camshaft Innovations will set the whole thing up for you. It might be on a 108º LSA and it might be on a 115º LSA. They have the knowhow to get the timing events right.

That cam you have sounds fairly mild for a solid roller. If you're not wanting the adjustment, do the switch to hydraulic roller. Set it and forget it. You can still make 500 or so N/A with that big motor on a hydraulic...maybe more. :shrug:

Im not contesting anyones statement ,but LSA can be used to dump low end cylinder pressure, to help fight detonation. (which leads to block splitting). This is especally useful on a Blown motor,

[coupe]

...LSA can be used to dump low end cylinder pressure, to help fight detonation. (which leads to block splitting). This is especally useful on a Blown motor,

You mean by tightening up the LSA (to say 110º or 108º) right?...

That's generally true :yup:, but assymetrical lobe(s) can give you a different outlook on it. And that becomes a pricey situation.

[Blown 5.0]

You mean by tightening up the LSA (to say 110º or 108º) right?...
That's generally true :yup:, but assymetrical lobe(s) can give you a different outlook on it. And that becomes a pricey situation.
Yes and no by running a cams specs on almost any kind of software ( desktop dyno,ect) Brake mean effective pressure can be montored, if this pressure will be kept below 300 at all engine speeds, This can be done by LSA, moving timing events, increasing lift, ect. detonation can be kept to a minium.

As far as a pricey situation, how much is your engine worth? To me cam selection is the most important part of any engine. A properly selected cam can and will make a motor run and last. I have checked several top name cams from differnt manufactures, Some of the top name cam grinders will be off up to 30 degrees from one cylinder to the other. ( reckon how much that cylinders controbution would be off ? ) Buy the best cam you can afford, Most cam grinders have two grinds a shelf grind and a race grind, spend the extra money and get the race grind, ( same cam, more percise ground)

[97cobrasvt]

I wanted to know what was the lift at .050" to see how high are the lobes and how fast are the ramps, and yes what Coupe said it is pretty mild cam you have there, what you need to know what is the spring pressure. My cam at .050" is .246/256 a bit more aggresive on the exhaust. If you planning going Hyd, then do it right from the get go. First is to get the Hydr link bar roller lifters from Crane, second, get a custom cam from Ed Curtis, Cammotion or other, except Cammotion. Then a set of spring that goes with that Hydr cam springs, so is going to cost you pretty good money to make the change.


Edgar


Do you have a number to reach them. Thanks Steven

[Wickd GT]

Do you have a number to reach them. Thanks Steven


Here you go:



http://www.cammotion.com/

[coupe]

IIRC, Steven has a nice Eagle or SCAT crank. The cheap cranks are bad about developing dangerous torsional harmonics in high-revving 347's (which can actually break the crank!), but with nice 4340 parts, it shouldn't be a problem. I have yet to see any gear-drives break things. Have you Edgar?

Would a chain drive be sufficient? Absolutely. In fact, I just bought one for my buildup.

[Wickd GT]

IIRC, Steven has a nice Eagle or SCAT crank. The cheap cranks are bad about developing dangerous torsional harmonics in high-revving 347's (which can actually break the crank!), but with nice 4340 parts, it shouldn't be a problem. I have yet to see any gear-drives break things. Have you Edgar?

Would a chain drive be sufficient? Absolutely. In fact, I just bought one for my buildup.

Yes I have. These gear drives are not designed to be rev to the moon with nitrous. It puts to much of a vibration in the valve train, snaping rucker studs dropping valves etc... If they were so go, hve you seen any of the Street Outlaws, Renegades etc... used them? No, due to the fact of the vibration it produces in a high reving engine. Plus they sound like a train falling apart going down the road, LOL.

Edgar

[coupe]

If they were so go, have you seen any of the Street Outlaws, Renegades etc... used them?
Na, the serious money buys belt drive every time...but some endurance stuff runs gear-drives.

It doesn't produce vibration or harmonics...just transfers them up top if they are present in the bottom. Yet another reason to use good parts and have it well-balanced.

[coupe]

If he's going new anyways...a good chain and hyd. roller will certainly put him where he wants to be.

[97cobrasvt]

I called and talked to cammotion and he told me I need to find out a few things on the motor before he can help me. So I am waiting for the guy to get back with me about the rod length, valve sizes and cylinder bore. Now its just a waiting game.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[coupe]

Yours is a 393, right? While you're waiting, you ought to fill out FTI's cam-request form and drop Ed Curtis an email just for another option.

And maybe try a place called "Bullet Cams" out of N. Mississippi. Heard nothing but good things about their stuff...especially ford cam selection. Blown5.0 probably knows that crew.

[97cobrasvt]

[quote=coupe;130948]Yours is a 393, right? While you're waiting, you ought to fill out FTI's cam-request form and drop Ed Curtis an email just for another option.

And maybe try a place called "Bullet Cams" out of N. Mississippi. Heard nothing but good things about their stuff...especially ford cam selection. Blown5.0 probably knows that crew.[/quote


yes it's a 393 I thought about doing that and figured if he is a engine builder he would probably know the rod length but he said they differ from each kit..

[coupe]

I think it's a stock-length 351W rod...5.956 IIRC. :shrug: with a 4.030 bore.

[97cobrasvt]

I think it's a stock-length 351W rod...5.956 IIRC. :shrug: with a 4.030 bore.



I know where you got the rod length but how did you get the bore?? Thanks Steven

[coupe]

393 is a common stroker and one of the first. It's is a stroker crank with a stock 351 rod and, of all things, a stock 302 piston. Basically you can do them on a budget...using stock 5.0L pistons and a 351 Windsor block and rods...Just buy the crank. 3.85" stroke IIRC. Stock is 3.50"

[97cobrasvt]

Hey it asked on the cam request about the corners. What is it talking about ? It has you check fast or tight:dunno:

[coupe]

Leave it blank. I think that has to do with road-racing.

All they really need is head flow, stroke (to find piston speed at RPM), bore (for flow reasons), desired power-band, power-adder or NA, and what your goals are. they also like to know what cam you had and how it performed...gives them an idea of how the car works.