TKO 500/600 clutchquestions

[99LS1]

I'm looking at swapping to a TKO 500 or 600 soon. I wasn't sure if the 600 would be overkill, but it's not much more to get the 600. The setup isn't going to be too wild. Best case scenario is a 383c stroker on spray.

This has probably been covered, but what's a good clutch/flywheel setup? I don't mind a heavy clutch but something comparable to an 03/04 cobra feel would be fine.

[TheJeanyus]

My SPEC 3+ is lighter than my stock clutch was, and will hold way more power than this car will ever make. :yup:

[97cobrasvt]

If you are going to buy one or the other I would go ahead and buy the 600. I had one in my 97 cobra and had no problems at all with it.

[QWKSNKE]

I wouldn't buy either. I think 97cobrasvt is the only person that had one that wasn't junk

[qkjuicedpony]

if you buy a tremec...go old school and get a original tko....

[Italian LX]

Yeah, mine is a piece of crap as far as shifting goes.


However, if you decide you want one, you'll want to look into the gear ratios since they are different between the 500 and the 600. You may want the 500 since it will get that heavy car off the line better.

Here's some useful information on various transmission ratios:
http://www.deepstageperformance.com/transmissionratios.htm


Also, if you go with the 600, you'll have to buy a clutch that comes in a 26-spline disc.

[coupe]

The gear ratios and input shaft options are the only real differences between the 500 and 600. The 500 having a 3.35 or so first gear and the 600 has a 2.95 or something close. Now, the 500 comes in 10-spline (stock-type) or 26-spline input shafts. The 600 only comes in 26-spline.

The 10-spline is good up to about 500hp reliably. The 26-spline is good for more like 1000...well beyond the rest of the trans.

Clutch from SPEC is the same price, either 10-spline or 26-spline...some other brands have a price difference between splines, but they shoudln't; Nothing else is different except for the center hub of the disk.

If you decide to go with a 500, because of the ratios, definitely don't waste time with the 10-spline, since it's about the same cost and the clutch is the same, except for the disk hub. :nice:

[99LS1]

Now I'm surprised by the responses, especially Italian's and Lee's. I thought T5's were notorious for breaking when you start putting down power. I figured people would like their tremecs.

Maybe I should just back up and get some opinions since I know very little about ford manual trans.

The mustang has a 3.90 rearend and weighs ~3800lbs. It needs a 5spd. I can't see making much over 400whp/ftlbs and I doubt I'll speed shift it much, but I'd rather buy something that's built to last and leave it alone. What are some good options for swapping to a manual? Some variant of a T5? Or some other option I'm not aware of?

[qkjuicedpony]

tremec 3550...you can get them for a fair price on the corral.

or if you want i just may have another tko for sale soon

[99LS1]

Unless I know the person I'm real hesitant to buy a used one. I've had a lot of problems from buying used ones in the past.

I'm interested in hearing some T5 vs 500/600. I'm assuming Italian couldn't get a T5 to work behind his 418 if he went with a tremec. But it sounds like he doesn't like it either.

[97cobrasvt]

well I have a tko500 in my coupe now with no problems yet (key word yet)

[QWKSNKE]

Now I'm surprised by the responses, especially Italian's and Lee's. I thought T5's were notorious for breaking when you start putting down power. I figured people would like their tremecs.

Maybe I should just back up and get some opinions since I know very little about ford manual trans.

The mustang has a 3.90 rearend and weighs ~3800lbs. It needs a 5spd. I can't see making much over 400whp/ftlbs and I doubt I'll speed shift it much, but I'd rather buy something that's built to last and leave it alone. What are some good options for swapping to a manual? Some variant of a T5? Or some other option I'm not aware of?

You are correct. The stock and z spec t-5's like mine do break but only if you are into speedshifting like Brian and I do.

Brian's tko 500 will not go into 3rd wot at high rpm. The only way he can get it to go in is to granny shift it. Tommy's tko has a bad vibration he can't get out of it. The guy that has Shankin's old green coupe has the same 3rd gear issue as Brian according to what he said at our last track day.

In my opinion the only manual tranny's to use with a nicely powered mustang is a t-56 or a gforce t-5. The latter is what I plan to do whenever I have the money to upgrade. http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp

[coupe]

The 3.90 gear will be fine with the 600 Tremec. And yes, there are some folks with issues...but many more with no problems at all. I couldn't recommend either way unless you have it "pro-built." A sure bet would be to get one through a shop who modifies them with some higher-capacity parts. For instance, ProMotion Powertrain adds billet shift forks and blueprints some extra stuff; they faceplate the gearsets instead of the synchros...those transmissions shift fine behind 500hp at 9,000 RPM.

All in all, Tremecs are stronger cases than the G-force modified T5, but at your 400 hp level, the G-force would be fine. The only troubles with those arrive when sustained 600 hp levels are seen.

[1Quik85GT]

G-force it, I highly recommend them.

[Italian LX]

. . . they faceplate the gearsets instead of the synchros...those transmissions shift fine behind 500hp at 9,000 RPM.

Not very friendly on the street though. Besides, it's a bit overkill for what Brandon is looking for.

[Italian LX]

The 500 having a 3.35 or so first gear and the 600 has a 2.95 or something close.
My post just before yours clearly shows the ratios. It's a 3.27 vs. 2.87.

[qkjuicedpony]

You will hear horror stories from both sides of the fence.


you want a trans for more street duty than anything and im sure you won't be racing it all the time.

the tko500/600 was your first choice so why not stick with it.

[Italian LX]

I'm interested in hearing some T5 vs 500/600. I'm assuming Italian couldn't get a T5 to work behind his 418 if he went with a tremec. But it sounds like he doesn't like it either.
I actually had the TKO behind my 302 for almost a year before I swapped motors. It NEVER shifted well at high RPM's and now it won't do a simple 4-3 down shift (I have to drop it down into 2nd and then go up into 3rd... what a pain in the ass). You can do a search and find at least one thread that gives more details on my issues.

I don't want to steer you away from Tremec because I'm sure they can put out some decent stuff... I just wasn't lucky enough to get one of their good transmissions. Tremec appears to have a proplem with quality based on all of the complaint threads on the internet forums.

[99LS1]

The g-force units are pretty pricey. They're showing 2000$ for a remanu. kit with street gears. For that price I think I'd rather take my chances with a tremec.

The tremec was my first choice, but I don't know much about ford trans. so I was making sure I wasn't overlooking something. It was mainly my first choice given how many 351c guys were using them.

[QWKSNKE]

that is still cheaper than a tremec

[Italian LX]

that is still cheaper than a tremec
How do you figure? :think:

Even if he had to buy a different bell housing, crossmember, and driveshaft yoke it shouldn't be more than $2K.

However, being that he's not set-up for a T-5 currently, he'll have to buy all that stuff no matter which route he takes.

[99LS1]

I've seen prices for the 500 for about 1875, and the 600 for 1975.

Looks like the the price I posted was wrong. The remanu with the dog gears is 2k$, and a new T-5 with street gears is $2k. I think I'll stick with street (syncro) set.

However, they're not showing hp ratings nor prices on upgrades. I think I'll call here and try to price one out.


edit: GForce just quoted me $2500 for a new trans with proper upgrades. Quite a bit higher.

[coupe]

Call Walt @ ProMotion Powertrain. Tell him Matt from SPEC clutch sent you. He may mark the price up a little. :p But he carries T5 stuff and Tremec stuff. He is very knowledgable and will not lead you down a road you don't need just for a sale.

[QWKSNKE]

I've seen prices for the 500 for about 1875, and the 600 for 1975.

Looks like the the price I posted was wrong. The remanu with the dog gears is 2k$, and a new T-5 with street gears is $2k. I think I'll stick with street (syncro) set.

However, they're not showing hp ratings nor prices on upgrades. I think I'll call here and try to price one out.


edit: GForce just quoted me $2500 for a new trans with proper upgrades. Quite a bit higher.

That sounds way to high. I am only looking at $1000 in parts to upgrade my t-5. Seems to me you could buy a broke t-5 from a junkyard or individual and buy the upgrade kit from gforce and build the tranny.

Don't you have a 351c in your car? Does anyone make the necessary stuff to install the tko in your car? (bellhousing, crossmember, driveshaft)

[Blown 5.0]

We have a 600 in a 88 Mustang, had to go into the trans with less than 1000 miles on it. The guy at tremec would never admit there was anything wrong, BUT he sent us some upgraded shift fingers for Free?, Along with a complete tear down and rebuild Manuel. The fingers helped, now it will shift with just boost, but you cant spray it and shift without letting off the spray. The t5 that was in the car would shift fine, till my buddy hulled 3RD gear shift fork. We will not buy another 600 tko. We have put the T5 gear set in from astro performance, so far the trans has worked fine.

[Italian LX]

We have put the T5 gear set in from astro performance, so far the trans has worked fine.
That's what I'll likely be trying next.

[99LS1]

Several people make the bellhousing that bolts up. I want to say it's the same bolt patteron as a 289/302/351 since the 351c is from the small block family.

I don't believe the driveshaft yoke is a problem either. The crossmember can be modified. I've looked at several parts list and it's really not that involved.

Tremec 3550 ($800.00)
Tremec Shifter (Free with tranny)
Tremec bellhousing ($50.00)
Flywheel (came with bellhousing had it balanced to match my flexplate)
Flywheel Bolts ($20.00)
Driveshaft Yoke (I used the one from my C4)
Clutch Pedal (Came with Clutch Pedal Assymboly $100)
Clutch fork ($20.00)
Throwout Bearing (Included with Clutch Fork)
Clutch and Pressure Plate ($195 for the first one, $175 for the second)
Pressure Plate Bolts ($10.00)
Crossmember (Modified my C4 Crossmember)
Two 3/8 8” grade 8 bolt (15.00) with locking nuts and washers
Two 3” pieces of 1” diameter pipe
Tranny Fluid ($6.00)
Shifter Boot ($3.00 from junkyard)

[Italian LX]

I've looked at several parts list and it's really not that involved.

Tremec 3550 ($800.00)
Tremec Shifter (Free with tranny)
Tremec bellhousing ($50.00)
Flywheel (came with bellhousing had it balanced to match my flexplate)
Flywheel Bolts ($20.00)
Driveshaft Yoke (I used the one from my C4)
Clutch Pedal (Came with Clutch Pedal Assymboly $100)
Clutch fork ($20.00)
Throwout Bearing (Included with Clutch Fork)
Clutch and Pressure Plate ($195 for the first one, $175 for the second)
Pressure Plate Bolts ($10.00)
Crossmember (Modified my C4 Crossmember)
Two 3/8 8” grade 8 bolt (15.00) with locking nuts and washers
Two 3” pieces of 1” diameter pipe
Tranny Fluid ($6.00)
Shifter Boot ($3.00 from junkyard)
Don't forget the clutch cable.

[99LS1]

Doh. Wouldn't it be easier to tell me what to buy so I can pull the trigger on something :doh: I think I'm overanalyzing the situation.

[qkjuicedpony]

are you going to swap to a cable style clutch or use the factory z bar setup?

[coupe]

If you want to buy everything as a package, there is a place who can do it...Called Keisler Engineering (Knoxville, TN). They specialize in Tremec conversions into earlier-model cars (alot of 60's-70's muscle). Ask for Glen.

[Craig K.]

Is there other possibilities on the market for such a conversion such as a Doug Nash 5 speed, perhaps a Jerico or T-10 with an add on 5th gear?

[99LS1]

Probably not behind a 351c, choices are limited anyway. I'd rather stay the course of other guys and pick between either a t5 or tremec. Most seem to go tremec.

[03slobra]

Seems like some of yall hate tremecs.i'm not saying they dont have problems but I love my tko600 i've had it 2 years and it shifts just fine.

[97cobrasvt]

Seems like some of yall hate tremecs.i'm not saying they dont have problems but I love my tko600 i've had it 2 years and it shifts just fine.



I'm with you on that, I have no complaints about either of the ones I have owned.

[Italian LX]

Like I've said before, it appears that some people get good TKO's and others get crappy ones. It sad to say, but it's just a gamble you have to take.

[coupe]

From my observations (online and in the clutch industry), percentages look about like 90% good and 10% bad. But as Brian says...taking a gamble is not in everyone's blood. :(