Need some advice about an issue I'm having with the PCV

Procharged87 · 02-24-2012, 12:51 AM

I posted a thread a while back about some issues I was having with my 95 GT after we did a bunch of work to it (balance problem, smoking out the exhaust, etc). Turns out that we discovered the cause of all the issues was that, for some reason, it's pulling oil from the PCV line on the intake into the manifold right behind my throttle body. Apparently it was causing the plugs to foul from oil content, which was causing the other issues to manifest. When we pulled the Kenne Bell last time, the runners in the lower intake had quite a bit of oil coating in them so we realized that's where the problem was. I tried putting a nice catch can inline from the PCV to the intake and also using a Turbo T-bird style PCV valve but apparently it must be sucking (or blowing) enough oil through the line that it is filling up the can and still letting it get into the intake.

The question now is how to fix it. I know there's a whole PCV vs. venting to atmosphere debate that goes on on the internet and, I can see why each has it merits and drawbacks. Even my family can't give me a clear direction on what to do. My Dad is old school and says that we should use a remote catch can with a breather and vent it there and I'll never have to worry about oil in the intake again. My brother thinks we should try to figure out how to fix the PCV (either by reversing the flow direction or changing it such as to eliminate the oil sucking/blowing condition somehow). I guess I'm looking for opinions from anyone that may have had a similar condition and how you eliminated it? It's been over a year since I've had the car out other than around my neighborhood and I'm really ready to drive it again. Any ideas or assistance you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Some very, very basic specs on the motor/mods to help: Factory 95 5.0L bottom end, Kenne Bell 2.1L (about 7-7.5 lbs), Holley SysteMax 1 lower intake, Comp Cams 264HR-NX cam, AFR 165 heads.

BIGDATOWN · 02-24-2012, 06:44 AM

Are the rings still factory 95? If so, you need to freshen up the bottome end. The extra crank case pressure from the boost and causing bad blow-by due to weak rings. thats my only opinion on this matter. Because any other way than that and your only bandaiding the situation.

Procharged87 · 02-24-2012, 11:18 AM

They are the factory rings but it's a relatively low milage car for its age and the car never smoked at all when I ran the Kenne Bell on it for two years prior to doing the H/C/I. It's had full synthetic in it since about 15k miles and was basically driven totally mild until the KB install in 08. It was only after we swapped the cam, lower intake and heads that problem manifested. We thought that maybe the heads were the issue originally until we pulled the Kenne Bell off and noticed the oil in the runners on the lower intake. Also, when the heads were off, the motor was very clean inside and still had most of the crosshatch on the cylinder walls so we never suspected it being the rings. It wasn't ever intended to be an extreme build because the car is a convertible and I was purposefully trying to keep the power/boost at a sensible level that it performed well but wasn't overkill for the street. I haven't changed the boost or anything from the way it was run before but I guess it's possible the H/C/I could have changed that. We just figured if we could get the oil out of the intake track that it would be OK.

BIGDATOWN · 02-24-2012, 12:02 PM

Something still doesn't sound quite right to me. I have always been told to be leary of installing new heads on a older bottom end as it can cause blow by on the older rings because of better valve seat etc.. Try running a compression test and leakdown test before ruling out the bottom end.

EHardy1971 · 02-24-2012, 06:03 PM

Put an oil separator on it between the PCV valve and and the intake. The Lightnings are bad about pulling oil into the intake and intercooler from the PCV. The oil separator cures that problem.

qkjuicedpony · 02-24-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EHardy1971

Put an oil separator on it between the PCV valve and and the intake. The Lightnings are bad about pulling oil into the intake and intercooler from the PCV. The oil separator cures that problem.

This. Or do a catch can setup. Every kb fox I've messed with pulled oil like that.

Procharged87 · 02-25-2012, 11:10 AM

I actually have a catch can with a built in seperator on it now that we put inline after we found the oil in the intake runners, and I also run an oil seperator on the line from the powerpipe to the valve cover. The catch can is not a large one and it seems to be filling up relatively quickly which is why we considered the idea of just removing the PCV system so that it couldn't pull oil into the intake system anymore. My brother seemed to think that either the new lower intake repositioned the PCV valve enough that it's caused the issue or that perhaps the line we have from the powerpipe to the valve cover is too small and it's not getting enough air in. Just trying to figure out how to properly tackle it. I really thought the catch can would fix it but apparently it was not enough.

waypastcrazy · 02-25-2012, 04:13 PM

Just a little info.Qoute)Not all engines have PCV valves. Some (like Ford Escort, GM FWD cars with the Quad Four engine, etc.) ventilate the crankcase with a small breather hose and calibrated orifice. There is no spring-loaded PCV valve. On these applications, no maintenance is usually necessary.

EHardy1971 · 02-25-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waypastcrazy

Just a little info.Qoute)Not all engines have PCV valves. Some (like Ford Escort, GM FWD cars with the Quad Four engine, etc.) ventilate the crankcase with a small breather hose and calibrated orifice. There is no spring-loaded PCV valve. On these applications, no maintenance is usually necessary.

The '95 GT's have a PCV valve though like the Foxes.

To the OP, you said you had the old style Systemax intake, do you remember if it has the long PCV baffle under the lower intake, or the long baffle?

Procharged87 · 02-25-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EHardy1971

The '95 GT's have a PCV valve though like the Foxes.

To the OP, you said you had the old style Systemax intake, do you remember if it has the long PCV baffle under the lower intake, or the long baffle?

Good question. It's been so long since I put it on that I'm having trouble remembering. I'm looking through pictures of the build right now to see. I had quite a few pictures of the top of the manifold but haven't found one for the bottom yet. Hoping I'll find a picture so I can post it.

02-24-2012, 12:51 AM	#1
Procharged87 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15	Need some advice about an issue I'm having with the PCV I posted a thread a while back about some issues I was having with my 95 GT after we did a bunch of work to it (balance problem, smoking out the exhaust, etc). Turns out that we discovered the cause of all the issues was that, for some reason, it's pulling oil from the PCV line on the intake into the manifold right behind my throttle body. Apparently it was causing the plugs to foul from oil content, which was causing the other issues to manifest. When we pulled the Kenne Bell last time, the runners in the lower intake had quite a bit of oil coating in them so we realized that's where the problem was. I tried putting a nice catch can inline from the PCV to the intake and also using a Turbo T-bird style PCV valve but apparently it must be sucking (or blowing) enough oil through the line that it is filling up the can and still letting it get into the intake. The question now is how to fix it. I know there's a whole PCV vs. venting to atmosphere debate that goes on on the internet and, I can see why each has it merits and drawbacks. Even my family can't give me a clear direction on what to do. My Dad is old school and says that we should use a remote catch can with a breather and vent it there and I'll never have to worry about oil in the intake again. My brother thinks we should try to figure out how to fix the PCV (either by reversing the flow direction or changing it such as to eliminate the oil sucking/blowing condition somehow). I guess I'm looking for opinions from anyone that may have had a similar condition and how you eliminated it? It's been over a year since I've had the car out other than around my neighborhood and I'm really ready to drive it again. Any ideas or assistance you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated. Some very, very basic specs on the motor/mods to help: Factory 95 5.0L bottom end, Kenne Bell 2.1L (about 7-7.5 lbs), Holley SysteMax 1 lower intake, Comp Cams 264HR-NX cam, AFR 165 heads.

02-24-2012, 06:03 PM	#5
EHardy1971 Trunk Monkey Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Home Posts: 5,708	Put an oil separator on it between the PCV valve and and the intake. The Lightnings are bad about pulling oil into the intake and intercooler from the PCV. The oil separator cures that problem. __________________ Eric 89 LX Coupe-Juiced 01 Lightning-Boost 06 TBSS Last edited by EHardy1971; 02-24-2012 at 06:06 PM.

02-25-2012, 04:13 PM	#8
waypastcrazy ADDICTED TO SMALL BLOCKS Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lookout mt Posts: 1,757	Just a little info.Qoute)Not all engines have PCV valves. Some (like Ford Escort, GM FWD cars with the Quad Four engine, etc.) ventilate the crankcase with a small breather hose and calibrated orifice. There is no spring-loaded PCV valve. On these applications, no maintenance is usually necessary. __________________ http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/index.php One of StreetStangs class clowns! Status:slow as hell! NORTH EAST ALABAMA STANGS

02-24-2012, 06:44 AM	#2
BIGDATOWN Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 221	Are the rings still factory 95? If so, you need to freshen up the bottome end. The extra crank case pressure from the boost and causing bad blow-by due to weak rings. thats my only opinion on this matter. Because any other way than that and your only bandaiding the situation.

02-24-2012, 11:18 AM	#3
Procharged87 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15	They are the factory rings but it's a relatively low milage car for its age and the car never smoked at all when I ran the Kenne Bell on it for two years prior to doing the H/C/I. It's had full synthetic in it since about 15k miles and was basically driven totally mild until the KB install in 08. It was only after we swapped the cam, lower intake and heads that problem manifested. We thought that maybe the heads were the issue originally until we pulled the Kenne Bell off and noticed the oil in the runners on the lower intake. Also, when the heads were off, the motor was very clean inside and still had most of the crosshatch on the cylinder walls so we never suspected it being the rings. It wasn't ever intended to be an extreme build because the car is a convertible and I was purposefully trying to keep the power/boost at a sensible level that it performed well but wasn't overkill for the street. I haven't changed the boost or anything from the way it was run before but I guess it's possible the H/C/I could have changed that. We just figured if we could get the oil out of the intake track that it would be OK.

02-24-2012, 12:02 PM	#4
BIGDATOWN Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 221	Something still doesn't sound quite right to me. I have always been told to be leary of installing new heads on a older bottom end as it can cause blow by on the older rings because of better valve seat etc.. Try running a compression test and leakdown test before ruling out the bottom end.

02-25-2012, 11:10 AM	#7
Procharged87 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15	I actually have a catch can with a built in seperator on it now that we put inline after we found the oil in the intake runners, and I also run an oil seperator on the line from the powerpipe to the valve cover. The catch can is not a large one and it seems to be filling up relatively quickly which is why we considered the idea of just removing the PCV system so that it couldn't pull oil into the intake system anymore. My brother seemed to think that either the new lower intake repositioned the PCV valve enough that it's caused the issue or that perhaps the line we have from the powerpipe to the valve cover is too small and it's not getting enough air in. Just trying to figure out how to properly tackle it. I really thought the catch can would fix it but apparently it was not enough.