New toys ... - Page 5

coupe · 04-04-2006, 09:06 PM

How's about a 347 with Eagle 4340 crank, Eagle H-beams, SRP flat-tops?
$2399 pro-assembled by BB&T.
And they're in Memphis so you could pick up on a Saturday

(800) 416-6199 - ask for Derrick; tell him Matt from SPEC Clutch sent ya.
http://www.bbandtracing.com

Sendero · 04-04-2006, 09:36 PM

Do 347 still have "life-span" oiling issues that the 331 was supposed to solve? (ie the rod to bore angle)

1sicklx · 04-04-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sendero

Do 347 still have "life-span" oiling issues that the 331 was supposed to solve? (ie the rod to bore angle)

That has been my biggest concern, although DSS claims that they have addressed the issue they still say that the 331 is still "easier on the block" but not a big enough difference that they wouldn't use a 347 for a DD.

That's their take on it anyway.

Italian LX · 04-05-2006, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sendero

Do 347 still have "life-span" oiling issues that the 331 was supposed to solve? (ie the rod to bore angle)

My thought on that is that if you have to worry about those issues, then you probably shouldn't be building a stroker motor -- you're best bet is to stick with a stock stroked 306.... or maybe even a long-rod version if you are really paranoid.

You could go to a 351 motor to resolve that rod-ratio problem, but then you would have to deal with the extra weight and the awful 3" mains.

Anytime you get into bigger power, you're going to decrease the longevity of a motor -- it basiclly turns into one big balancing act. If you can't afford to put some weight on "decreased longevity" side of the scale, then you're going to have to sacrifice a few tenths at the drag strip.

I'm not saying that you have to settle for a short-lived motor, just be aware that increased power will usually equal a shorter lifespan. Also, be sure to use quality parts and be absolutely sure that you trust your machinist an engine builder!

NightHawk756 · 04-05-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italian LX

My thought on that is that if you have to worry about those issues, then you probably shouldn't be building a stroker motor -- you're best bet is to stick with a stock stroked 306.... or maybe even a long-rod version if you are really paranoid.

You could go to a 351 motor to resolve that rod-ratio problem, but then you would have to deal with the extra weight and the awful 3" mains.

Anytime you get into bigger power, you're going to decrease the longevity of a motor -- it basiclly turns into one big balancing act. If you can't afford to put some weight on "decreased longevity" side of the scale, then you're going to have to sacrifice a few tenths at the drag strip.

I'm not saying that you have to settle for a short-lived motor, just be aware that increased power will usually equal a shorter lifespan. Also, be sure to use quality parts and be absolutely sure that you trust your machinist an engine builder!

Yeah, but you know as well as I do that, if someone says that a 347 won't last as long as a 331, then they'll go with a 331. Just for the simple fact that they want as much for their hard earned money as they can get. That's just simple human nature.

If it's a well-known oiling problem with said stroker kit, then most will go to another stroker to stay away from that problem. Now, I have heard things about different companies supposedly fixing that problem. Although I still went with a 331 just to stay away from having a "chance" that the problem hasn't been addressed properly. And I know that building a stroker motor is already shortening the motor's life expectency, but I'm definately not going to take more of a chance to shorten it anymore.

coupe · 04-05-2006, 07:27 AM

You have to understand the problem that was causing the early 347's to smoke and wear out. It was not the rod/stroke ratio.
The first 347's came out and they were using regular ring-sets like for a 302. The 347 does have more side-loading on the pistons, so requires a little more ring tension...but not too much or it will scuff really bad. Finding the right rings is easy today...and the right shop to set them up correctly is easier too.

These are the misconceptions they're telling you about over on hardcore50 where you posted this same thread. The 347 is fine nowadays.
But if you cannot live with it, a 331 will give you just about the same level of power...but it still needs the right rings.

nxcoupe · 04-05-2006, 11:27 AM

I have built a bunch of 347's, 342's, 331's and 327's. All of them work equally well. The larger cubes make a little more power, but more torque down low. Neither uses oil or has wear issues. Coupe is correct, the older 347 kits used low tension oil rings and had oil consumption issues, if you call 1 qt between oil changes an issue. Heck the 87-89 engines were considered normal to use that much oil, go figure.
I would run a 342/347 with the Twisted wedge package. You won't find enough power in the 185's to offset the cost difference. Use the stage 2 cam, and 15/8 shorties. You aren't building a max hp vehicle and then planning to use it as a dd, so just build what you want/can afford, and be happy with the results. It will be substantially more power than you are currently used to.
FWIW, my shop offers a 342/FRPP sportsman block based engine with forged crank, pistons and H beam or lightweight I beam rods, balanced for 3149. Get with Lee, he may be able to sweeten that deal for ya.

1sicklx · 04-05-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nxcoupe

It will be substantially more power than you are currently used to.

No doubt there ... a 13 sec car is the fastest I've ever owned.

Craig K. · 04-05-2006, 03:05 PM

My brother and I have a friend who builds mostly vintage W2W racing engines, however he also builds many street/strip stuff as well.
I had asked him about this same issue a few years ago, and he had stated the same issues as coupe.

He had also told me that he has built many 347's that are DD cars, these have (at the time) seen over 20k miles pushing 500 HP (flywheel) NA with no oil consumption issues.

I firmly believe that it is in the set-up and who is doing the machine work for you.

1sicklx · 04-07-2006, 09:00 PM

Ok, after a lot of thought and crunching numbers I went with the 331

Now cough cough do I dare play mix and match??

AFR 185 Heads
TFS Stage 2 Cam
Systemax Intake

I'm sure some of you are sick of my indecissiveness (spck) but I want to be sure I'm going to get my moneys worth out of this investment.

04-04-2006, 09:06 PM	#41
coupe Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,313	Re: New toys ... How's about a 347 with Eagle 4340 crank, Eagle H-beams, SRP flat-tops? $2399 pro-assembled by BB&T. And they're in Memphis so you could pick up on a Saturday (800) 416-6199 - ask for Derrick; tell him Matt from SPEC Clutch sent ya. http://www.bbandtracing.com __________________ " If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. " - Albert Einstein

04-04-2006, 09:36 PM	#42
Sendero Im gonna show her my... Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere providing FREE tech support. Posts: 4,269	Re: New toys ... Do 347 still have "life-span" oiling issues that the 331 was supposed to solve? (ie the rod to bore angle) __________________ I heard it on the internet, so it must be true. "I believe that a person's moral compass can be determined by how he references free men the right to defend themselves." T. Nugent "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." R. Heinlein "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." -Unknown

04-05-2006, 07:27 AM	#46
coupe Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,313	Re: New toys ... You have to understand the problem that was causing the early 347's to smoke and wear out. It was not the rod/stroke ratio. The first 347's came out and they were using regular ring-sets like for a 302. The 347 does have more side-loading on the pistons, so requires a little more ring tension...but not too much or it will scuff really bad. Finding the right rings is easy today...and the right shop to set them up correctly is easier too. These are the misconceptions they're telling you about over on hardcore50 where you posted this same thread. The 347 is fine nowadays. But if you cannot live with it, a 331 will give you just about the same level of power...but it still needs the right rings. __________________ " If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. " - Albert Einstein

04-05-2006, 11:27 AM	#47
nxcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Somewhere, Afghanistan Posts: 122	Re: New toys ... I have built a bunch of 347's, 342's, 331's and 327's. All of them work equally well. The larger cubes make a little more power, but more torque down low. Neither uses oil or has wear issues. Coupe is correct, the older 347 kits used low tension oil rings and had oil consumption issues, if you call 1 qt between oil changes an issue. Heck the 87-89 engines were considered normal to use that much oil, go figure. I would run a 342/347 with the Twisted wedge package. You won't find enough power in the 185's to offset the cost difference. Use the stage 2 cam, and 15/8 shorties. You aren't building a max hp vehicle and then planning to use it as a dd, so just build what you want/can afford, and be happy with the results. It will be substantially more power than you are currently used to. FWIW, my shop offers a 342/FRPP sportsman block based engine with forged crank, pistons and H beam or lightweight I beam rods, balanced for 3149. Get with Lee, he may be able to sweeten that deal for ya. __________________ Michael 92 coupe R/S 8

04-05-2006, 03:05 PM	#49
Craig K. Nothing new here Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 2,990	Re: New toys ... My brother and I have a friend who builds mostly vintage W2W racing engines, however he also builds many street/strip stuff as well. I had asked him about this same issue a few years ago, and he had stated the same issues as coupe. He had also told me that he has built many 347's that are DD cars, these have (at the time) seen over 20k miles pushing 500 HP (flywheel) NA with no oil consumption issues. I firmly believe that it is in the set-up and who is doing the machine work for you. __________________ 1974 Triumph TR6 1985 Monte Carlo SS 1986 Mustang GT 2011 KIA Optima GTS

04-07-2006, 09:00 PM	#50
1sicklx BamaMafia 4 Life Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lake View, AL Posts: 2,577	Re: New toys ... Ok, after a lot of thought and crunching numbers I went with the 331 Now cough cough do I dare play mix and match?? AFR 185 Heads TFS Stage 2 Cam Systemax Intake I'm sure some of you are sick of my indecissiveness (spck) but I want to be sure I'm going to get my moneys worth out of this investment. __________________ 1999 Ford F-150 Lariat