Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference

Sendero · 10-10-2005, 09:45 PM

I have my Zeitronix Wideband connected to the TwEECer via a DataQ serial connection. The wideband has been off of the car for a couple of months, but before I removed it I was having "wierdness" at idle.

The Wideband O2 is installed in the Drivers side rear O2 hole of my Dr. Gas X-pipe. During warmup the wideband reads about 13.8:1 but as soon as the car gets to 195* and the fuel trims kick in, the WB bounces between 16:1 to 18:1. The only way is reads anything less as idle is if I goose it and bring the RPM's up.

Is it possible that the WB is to far down the pipe to get accurate readings?

I was reading something about the "ground reference voltage" on the other forums, but it seemed that this was for the EGR installation. Do I need to ground my DataQ to the same place as the EEC?

86GT · 10-10-2005, 10:16 PM

I am seeing something like this on mine (PLX). It starts up and the WB reads 12 and then slowly goes lean at about 45 sec. Then when 90 sec hits it goes down to normal 14.64.

I have tried all kinds of things. I don't know if this is a way for ford to heat up the cats or not. It starts up with no problem, it just has this weird lean spot in the between 45-90 sec. If it is a warm start the lean spot is around 30-40 sec marker.

Maybe we need to try the other bank. We might have an exhaust leak that I can not hear. I wish I had one of those smoke machines that can help find leaks.

Dale McPeters · 10-11-2005, 06:29 AM

Could it be the transition from OL to CL? The one based on time or ECT?
Maybe it is not making a smooth transition?
Just a thought......

Sendero · 10-11-2005, 06:48 AM

Well, mine "makes the change" and stays that way. Zeitronix says to place the WB O2 about 24" away from the rear exhaust port and with it in the rear hole its about 30". I'm just trying to determine if the extra 6" is to much.

Dale McPeters · 10-11-2005, 06:55 AM

Well it should not make a difference as I have the FJO-WB sensor that I am using down in the x-pipe, of course it uses a different sensor and electronics.
Oh well...........

gt90stang · 10-11-2005, 10:09 PM

The Thermactor Air Diverter (TAD) is active for the first 45-180 seconds on startup. This will cause a very lean reading until it goes to normal operation. To actually check AFR during cold warm up you need to disable the TAD temporarily.

Don

Dale McPeters · 10-11-2005, 10:11 PM

Where have you been Don?
By the way I do not use TAD........

gt90stang · 10-11-2005, 10:24 PM

Dale,

Been tuning and learning way more about the PCM than I intended! Argggh! The good news is I've figured out the demons in my setup and am working on very fine tweeking.

Don

86GT · 10-11-2005, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt90stang

The Thermactor Air Diverter (TAD) is active for the first 45-180 seconds on startup. This will cause a very lean reading until it goes to normal operation. To actually check AFR during cold warm up you need to disable the TAD temporarily.

Don

Thanks Don, this explains what I am seeing. The only thing is mine happens from the 45 second mark to the end of startup mode or 180 sec. It does not see this lean spike the first 45 sec.

I will have to try disabling the TAD tomarrow.

Dale McPeters · 10-12-2005, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt90stang

Dale,

Been tuning and learning way more about the PCM than I intended! Argggh! The good news is I've figured out the demons in my setup and am working on very fine tweeking.

Don

Don,

Good deal glad to see you figured out the demons....

If you do not mind post pictures of your setup in the Studio section as I had seen something on yours that I wanted to look at.....
I am still tinkering with the little blue car & the '93gt. Have also been working on the '03 Mach 1 stuff more as I have time.

Dale

10-10-2005, 09:45 PM	#1
Sendero Im gonna show her my... Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere providing FREE tech support. Posts: 4,269	Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference I have my Zeitronix Wideband connected to the TwEECer via a DataQ serial connection. The wideband has been off of the car for a couple of months, but before I removed it I was having "wierdness" at idle. The Wideband O2 is installed in the Drivers side rear O2 hole of my Dr. Gas X-pipe. During warmup the wideband reads about 13.8:1 but as soon as the car gets to 195* and the fuel trims kick in, the WB bounces between 16:1 to 18:1. The only way is reads anything less as idle is if I goose it and bring the RPM's up. Is it possible that the WB is to far down the pipe to get accurate readings? I was reading something about the "ground reference voltage" on the other forums, but it seemed that this was for the EGR installation. Do I need to ground my DataQ to the same place as the EEC? __________________ I heard it on the internet, so it must be true. "I believe that a person's moral compass can be determined by how he references free men the right to defend themselves." T. Nugent "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." R. Heinlein "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." -Unknown

10-10-2005, 10:16 PM	#2
86GT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 449	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference I am seeing something like this on mine (PLX). It starts up and the WB reads 12 and then slowly goes lean at about 45 sec. Then when 90 sec hits it goes down to normal 14.64. I have tried all kinds of things. I don't know if this is a way for ford to heat up the cats or not. It starts up with no problem, it just has this weird lean spot in the between 45-90 sec. If it is a warm start the lean spot is around 30-40 sec marker. Maybe we need to try the other bank. We might have an exhaust leak that I can not hear. I wish I had one of those smoke machines that can help find leaks. __________________ EEC Analyzer A9M, TwEECer, 306ci, 73mm C&L w Tuner Tube, Cobra Intake, 42# inj, Edelbrock 6037, E303 cam, 155 fuel pump, FPR, 70mm TB, E-Fan, 3.55 gears, Powerdyne 9psi actual 5psi...way more.

10-11-2005, 06:29 AM	#3
Dale McPeters 5.0 Block/Walnut Cracker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Working.... Posts: 2,409	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference Could it be the transition from OL to CL? The one based on time or ECT? Maybe it is not making a smooth transition? Just a thought...... __________________ '14 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392 6-speed

10-11-2005, 06:48 AM	#4
Sendero Im gonna show her my... Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere providing FREE tech support. Posts: 4,269	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference Well, mine "makes the change" and stays that way. Zeitronix says to place the WB O2 about 24" away from the rear exhaust port and with it in the rear hole its about 30". I'm just trying to determine if the extra 6" is to much. __________________ I heard it on the internet, so it must be true. "I believe that a person's moral compass can be determined by how he references free men the right to defend themselves." T. Nugent "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." R. Heinlein "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." -Unknown

10-11-2005, 06:55 AM	#5
Dale McPeters 5.0 Block/Walnut Cracker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Working.... Posts: 2,409	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference Well it should not make a difference as I have the FJO-WB sensor that I am using down in the x-pipe, of course it uses a different sensor and electronics. Oh well........... __________________ '14 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392 6-speed

10-11-2005, 10:09 PM	#6
gt90stang Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 72	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference The Thermactor Air Diverter (TAD) is active for the first 45-180 seconds on startup. This will cause a very lean reading until it goes to normal operation. To actually check AFR during cold warm up you need to disable the TAD temporarily. Don

10-11-2005, 10:11 PM	#7
Dale McPeters 5.0 Block/Walnut Cracker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Working.... Posts: 2,409	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference Where have you been Don? By the way I do not use TAD........ __________________ '14 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392 6-speed

10-11-2005, 10:24 PM	#8
gt90stang Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 72	Re: Troubleshooting my Wideband and Ground Reference Dale, Been tuning and learning way more about the PCM than I intended! Argggh! The good news is I've figured out the demons in my setup and am working on very fine tweeking. Don